King Richard 111

Yes, but did he have those little princes killed?

I think it is fantastic that they might be his bones. How were they ever allowed to build, what is it? - a car park? over that site without doing a dig first?

Ah, did he, JO4? Josephine Tey's 'Daughter of Time' treats the Princes in the Tower mystery as if it were a modern detective story. A long time since I read it but it convinced me that there was another explanation.

Nelliemoser I've been following this story and think it's really exciting, I think I read somewhere that the skeleton looked as if it had a curvature of the spine. Possibly Richard III was much maligned but I still think he was number one suspect in the murder of the two princes, I think they were his nephews and were next in line to the throne. I don't know if I'm right in saying did Richard declare them illegitimate on the basis of their mother being a commoner so he could succeed? Nevertheless I think it's interesting, I think they are taking samples of the skeleton's DNA, but whose DNA would they test it against? I don't think he had any heirs and imagine the DNA material collected from our current royal family would have so many strands to it, I wonder whether it would be possible to make a connection. We will have to wait and find out.

They're testing the DNA against some very distant relation from Canada (I think).

I understand that the Friary was demolished at the time of the reformation and the rumour was that Richard's bones had been dumped in the river Soar. Leicester has a lot of Roman remains under its city centre as well as once having a thriving medieval city which was much destroyed by bad planning in Victorian and post war times the site of the friary has only recnetly been properly located.
The evidence that Richard had the princes killed is very poor. Henry V11 had a lot more to lose by there existance.
Look at arguments on the Richard 111 society website
www.richardiii.net/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9537600/Strong-evidence-Richard-IIIs-body-has-been-found-with-a-curved-spine.html

There is a descendent of Richards older sister.
"Michael Ibsen, 55, who lives in London, was identified by genealogists as a blood relative of Richard III after DNA testing established that his mother, Joy, who died in 2005, was a direct descendant of Anne of York, the king’s older sister. Experts will compare samples taken from remains found during excavation of a Franciscan church in Leicester with a DNA sample from the king’s 17th-generation nephew to verify what they said was a “stunning” find. The process will take up to three months."
15 minutes ago · Like

That is amazing - about the great great etc nephew!

My knowledge about Richard is a bit sketchy so will do a bit of reading up now. I can see that Henry VII's claim to the throne was very tenuous and I think he married the princes' sister, Elizabeth of York to firm things up a bit! Descendants in London and Canada, BBC get them on "Who do you think you are"

Yes, the descendant is Canadian, but lives in London (which is handy!)

I imagine it would be quite a surprise to be quietly living your life and a body of genealogists advised that you were a descendant of a King who lived well over 500 years ago, mmm maybe if you could be bothered, you could challenge the present line of succession!

Regarding all the rumours and claims about King Richards evil doings, todays revelations about the appalling misinformation around the Hillsborough tragedy of 25yrs ago, in a time when we had very good media, puts some context into the way distortions of the truth and political misinformations were much easier to perpetrate in the late 15th century.

Which means that we should be even more careful about believing propaganda from the 15th century.

somebody murdered 'em. So sweet too.

Who painted that picture? They don't look very sweet to me. They could have been as monstrous as many little boys are!

You're a hard woman anno

"That night the little princes went to sleep with their arms round each other’s necks, each trying to comfort the other. They lay together in a great big bed, happy in their dreams, with tears still wet upon their cheeks."

That's from "our Island History".

(weeps quietly)

It was Pedro somebody who painted it btw.

Looks like a piece of romanticised Victorian art.

Very interesting. It is clear that political propaganda has been alive and well for a very long time- and we will probably never know the truth about the Princes int he Tower. Having lived in Leicester for a very long time, I find it all fascinating.

Of course the true heir to the Throne, had the line of succession not bee badly tampered with many a time, is a republican sheep farmer from Australia- descended from the Hastings line, from Ashby-de-la-Zouch

He died a little while back Granjura and his heir doesn't want to know - luckily!

link to telegraph article in this thread

Sorry jo4, i had missed this post. Thanks. I used to teach with his sister, Lady Abney-Hastings - who was very easy-going and 'normal' friendly person imaginable, teaching in a very normal state school.

Coming from Leicester, I feel really excited about Richard III being found. The bit that bothers me is that they hauled the body of the loser, all the way from Market Bosworth back to Leicester - why?

My husband's aunt and uncle used to own the pub in the grounds of the castle which, I think, makes us feel as though he is ours!

Says here that he was taken back to Leicester and his body put on display for several days, so people would know for sure he was dead.

plan of medieaval Leicester here

medieval

where did that a come from!

Just to throw a little history into the mix for anybody interested.

Look up STOKE GOLDING HISTORY.

Stoke Golding is a village just outside Market Bosworth. It has the road signs 'Home of the Tudor Dynasty'. That is because Henry Tudor was 'crowned' in the village but history books rarely mention this as a fact.Just recently Stoke Golding has been mentioned on t.v. as they now believe the battle was nearer there than Bosworth but so much has been invested in Bosworth as the battle place, which it no doubt did also have.

Sadly Crown Hill now has a small housing estate on it much to the shame of the council.