Misuse of emergency ambulances

I watched a tv program last week about the ambulance service. One call out was to a young lady who was drunk, and another that had been called in as a suspected heart attack was to someone with very bad tooth ache!!!

I wonder who is telling this information and what agenda they may have. Usually a paramedic will assess first and then decide if an ambulance is required, even in an emergency. We know that NHS is overstretched so is this an attempt to blame people for using emergency services? I'm not saying OP is doing that, but who is giving this information, what are the statistics and what is their agenda?

Keeping the patient outside in the ambulance (before covid), was a tactic to overcome the lack of beds available, according to the paramedic in the ambulance we called out. BTW the patient had double pneumonia, a broken rib and was screaming in pain for 3/4 hour before being admitted.

The more I see of reports of people misuding the services the more I think that they being spread deliberatly to divert the blaim for the poor underfunded health services from the people responsible for them onto the general public.

I think you could well be right.Jackiest

If the reality paramedic type t v shows are correct grandmabatty and jackiesr there are many, many, many people ringing the ambulance numerous times for non medical reasons often lonely elderly, mentally unwell, and those under the influence There have been programmes where the ambulances are being rung for, numerous times a day and I can completely vouch for it with a neighbour .. very mentally unwell and very much worse since her mum and more recently her dad died (she lived with them) Now she literally rings 999 numerous times a day and night and they have to respond, She is taken off in the ambulance and after a short time of getting back home she starts again She has had SO much help from all agencies but it makes no difference

Slightly different but living in a flat opposite me is a young lady again very mentally unwell and under the influence of certainly alcohol (she usually has a can in her hand and a cig hanging out her mouth) She may well be on drugs as well she is living with some kind of boyfriend but almost daily they argue and she is thrown out onto the street where she lives in doorways gathering bits and pieces of tents, sleeping bags in a shopping trolly she is noisy, dirty, and badly needs help she’s probably mid 30 s with no teeth in her head she has piles of money falling out of her purse / bag
The police are called out so many times a day but can do nothing, absolutely nothing it is wasting their valuable time. She probably needs sectioning but that’s hard when someone is dependant on drugs and alcohol the homeless shelter won’t take addicts She’s probably falling between all nets

Totally agree Ambulance's are called when people either haven't bothered or assume a GP can't help.
However it will be interesting to see what the data from regional Ambulance's services is for the days of the strike, demand / serious of event, and outcome of the patient.
This could have interesting consequences for the future of the service.

Quokka I’m afraid it has always been thus. I think it’s come to the fore more as the Service is under so much pressure from all sorts of issues. Ambulance staff in the past had more time to deal with mental health/addiction issues now they are enormous pressure from all sides. I don’t know what the answer is I’m sure.

A neighbour had a very bad toothache , turned out she was having a heart attack , seems jaw pain is a symptom

Yes I agree the ambulance reality shows are quite an eye opener!
My view is that the whole service needs a complete overhaul and I also believe some kind of triage system before an expensive vehicle and crew are dispatched. Not a call centre assessment but maybe a smaller vehicle visit motor bike or something.

I also think there is an agenda to deflect blame from the government. Never seen so much expensive propaganda: random public information posts for 111 on social media, short clips advising people to see! their GP if coughing for more than 4 weeks. Cue worried guy staring at box, looking in bathroom mirror etc.
Anyone who didn't live here would think we have an excellent health care system.
Personally 11I has worked for me, great concept. I've used it twice. But there have to be appropriate services for call operators to direct you to.
First time was glass in foot. No minor injuries units so A and E. GP had no X Ray facilities and tiny splinter was causing a lot of pain and, after several days and attempts, impossible to get out. Only showed up on X Ray.
Second was recently. Flu which returned with a vengeance. Had prescription for antibiotics the next day. Wouldn't have been quick enough for septicaemia but knew if I left it may not have been in a fit state to get help. GP surgery closed for 3 days and v difficult to get appointments, especially when struggling to be coherent. 111 form was useless, losing voice. Raging fever and starting to feel out of it.
No breathing problems, possibly tonsillitis?
So 111 has its place. It wasn't 999 but felt it could have been.

No agenda from me I assure you to deflect blame from the chinless incompetents running the government. Perhaps the public need educating too in what comprises an emergency though.

The point brought up about minor injury units though is very valid. More of these would cream off those who don’t need quick intervention for life-threatening conditions or injuries. These would give the ambulance staff somewhere more appropriate to take patients and leave them.

Well, I don't know where these programmes are based, but here, when an ambulance is called ( have had to do so 4 times in past year, so have experience), questions are asked as to condition of patient, then if considered serious enough, ambulance is despatched, and paramedics decide if transfer to hospital is required. I do wonder if all these stories about people calling 999 because they are drunk/have broken a fingernail/have stubbed their toe are all one huge gaslighting exercise to convince the public that we are to blame. This is the problem with having a government full of liars, I don't believe anything . This doesn't mean I don't believe you Bluebelle, the cases you describe have fallen through the net, poor souls.

Totally agree Dogsmother.
Think there should be a dedicated 5th emergency service (coast guards making the fourth) for mental health. The unofficial expertise is there via charitable organisations so why not fund/ give free training as first responders? Think though some might not like idea of government intervention? Would hardly be the the the first NHS service to be privatised.

Trust me, they are not gaslighting. That’s not to say the government are in anyway competent but the general public appear to have lost the ability to treat minor illnesses and injuries and that combined with the fear of litigation causes many of the issues.

I saw the episode with the toothache etc. Channel 4. Presumably people have to give consent for clip to be broadcast. Neither the guy calling for help for his friend with toothache or the patient spoke good English. At one point friend just said yes, he clearly didn't understand the question And as a sideline where does this dentist come from? There are no NHS dentists in several counties. And how is a newcomer to this country supposed to find one when the people who live here can't, or can't afford to to go private? The drunk people couldn't really give informed consent.
How many patients refused filming? Know I would!

Jackiest

The more I see of reports of people misuding the services the more I think that they being spread deliberatly to divert the blaim for the poor underfunded health services from the people responsible for them onto the general public.

I know, I feel the same.

My elderly neighbours often have first responders out who occasionally will ring an ambulance but only if one of them need to be admitted. I suppose this comes back to lack of community based social care too

I suppose this comes back to lack of community based social care too

I've made that point before (I'd include community-based para medics). I agree.

I don't think there is a government agenda. I think the ambulance service is constantly abused by idiots!

HousePlantQueen

Well, I don't know where these programmes are based, but here, when an ambulance is called ( have had to do so 4 times in past year, so have experience), questions are asked as to condition of patient, then if considered serious enough, ambulance is despatched, and paramedics decide if transfer to hospital is required. I do wonder if all these stories about people calling 999 because they are drunk/have broken a fingernail/have stubbed their toe are all one huge gaslighting exercise to convince the public that we are to blame. This is the problem with having a government full of liars, I don't believe anything . This doesn't mean I don't believe you Bluebelle, the cases you describe have fallen through the net, poor souls.

That's what I don't understand. I don't have much experience of calling an emergency ambulance, but when I have, the patient has been examined and not always transferred to hospital. I once called 999 when a T1 diabetic friend was having a hypo. We'd given her glucose, but she wasn't responding. The ambulance arrived and she was stabilised within a few minutes. After checking that somebody would be with her for the next few hours, the ambulance then left. How do these people get through the net?

PerkyPiggy

I don't think there is a government agenda. I think the ambulance service is constantly abused by idiots!

I think there has been a government agenda to make massive cuts to community care and medical care - in fact, I know there has. Many of these cases could be dealt with in the home without the need to call 999.

The people who ring for the emergency services, mostly think that they really need them.

Medical websites inform you that a heart attack can present as being like severe heartburn, How is the average person, bent double with severe heartburnto know whether they are having heartburn or a heart attack.

Some serious illnesses have few severe symptons. A baby can go from fine to covered with a red rash in minutes. two hours later it can be all right again. When your child or grandchild suddenly develops a rash on their face. spreading down their body. Do you ring for an ambulance, or wait an hour or two until the baby's face is all over red and their throat is swollen and choking them, or until it is clear they have sepsis, or do you immediately ring for an ambulance and when the hospital has given the child, or the person with the potential heart attack a good going over and if they decide it is just a rash, which is fading or attack of indigestion, do you breath a sigh of relief and think about what it could have been.

The paramedics who came when DH had a heart attack, said although he looke bad, the heart measurements were borderline and they considered leaving him and telling him to see his GP in the morning, they then decided against that and took him to hospital.

There it was found that the heart attack was slight, but the 3, possibly 4 blocked arteries were not and his life was hanging by a thread. He was kept in hospital with monitors all over him in case he had another potentially fatal heart attack and they operated on him with in days.

It is not easy to tell between the symptoms of a trivial illness and something critical.

Think I'm kind of becoming that old lady!
I live alone and have looming health problems with no social support. It's scary.
I looked into retirement communities and tbh there is nothing. So plan is to get a cleaner if needed.
I was so ill over New Year that I was genuinely frightened. I've had pneumonia alone when younger, but worked, so someone would miss me.
I don't phone randomly phone the doc when off colour but was both very frightened and aware of being infectious at New Year.
Also had friends, who apparently had the same thing out partying in spite of the sniffles, in their words. Plus far worse health problems.
All of whom have family support. So I get it. That feeling of being alone, disbelieved, worthless and vulnerable.
And I'm also guilty of making my very damanding neighbour feel like this.
I have enough self esteem and fear tbh to fight if very ill, regardless of what other people, who haven't visited, think.

I’m the mother of a paramedic. Firstly, while the case load represented by the various ambulance programmes are sort of typical of the cases dealt with, they screen out the fighting drunks, the drug addicts and those seriously ill and needing intervention as it’s just not nice viewing.
The ambulance service and their call handlers are blamelessly caught in the middle of a constipated NHS provision. They’re happy to attend 5-8 jobs (average) during a 12 hour shift, being proactive in managing the care of an individual on an emergency basis. But the 111 service has skewed the input by referring people they’re just not sure about, and that includes many with mental health issues, some craving sympathetic contact, and knowing how to manipulate in order to get it from an ambulance attendance.
They’ll give anyone they’re sent to compassion. But sometimes receive little back. We, at large, have developed a sense of entitlement. If we don’t get what we want, the ambulance crew are an easy target for anger or complaints.
I’ve recently learnt that my daughter sometimes now fears going into work. Another shift, another job of pickling up an elderly person after a fall, another (up to 9 hr wait) outside an A&E watching that patient deteriorate, so much so it takes away their chance of full recovery.
So think on. Think of the impossible situation ambulance crew are caught up in. The attending crews go where sent, when sent. But be thankful we still have some.