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Ciphers from seventy years ago

(43 Posts)
Elegran Tue 19-Aug-14 21:29:41

I have just found some cipher brainteasers from my father, from I945-47 (he died almost 30 years ago). When you get the answer it will be obvious that it is right, so no need to post it to find out (but you can boast that you have solved it, if you like)

He would be chuffed to know that they are still being solved!

There are ten. This is the first:-

ZPV TIPVME GJOE UIJT POF WFSZ FBTZ CVU JU JT POMZjust UIF GJSTU

Elegran Tue 19-Aug-14 21:31:26

I don't know how that "just" crept into the cipher. Ignore it.

Elegran Tue 19-Aug-14 21:33:43

I am sure you finished the first in a few minutes! Here is the second:-

200805 190503151404 151405 919 1618150201021225 10211920 0119 05011925

janeainsworth Tue 19-Aug-14 21:47:27

Done the first one! Do I get a prize grin

janeainsworth Tue 19-Aug-14 21:52:21

Yep! grin

Elegran Tue 19-Aug-14 21:58:06

No prize, but you get an Egghead badge and permission to do the other eight.

janeainsworth Tue 19-Aug-14 21:59:10

I'm off! moon

Elegran Tue 19-Aug-14 22:02:13

I want to go to bed reasonably early, so can I please post numbers three and four both at once?

Number three:-

MFNYVI GSIVV NZB YV Z ORGGOV NLIV WRUURXFOG KVISZKH

Elegran Tue 19-Aug-14 22:05:11

Number five :-
GNIH TFOD NIKS IHTH TIWE LBUO RTEL TTIL YREV EVAH DLUO HSOU YDNA

Elegran Tue 19-Aug-14 22:06:43

Typo - that should say Number four (I don't think I would have made it to Bletchley Park)

ninathenana Wed 20-Aug-14 15:10:15

To all of you reading this thread........

Good luck, no point in me venturing here again grin

JoyBloggs Wed 20-Aug-14 20:23:42

Just done the first one, but haven't a clue where to start with the next one... confused confused confused

( Elegran, thank you for sharing these brainteasers - lovely that we are enjoying them after all this time and to know that your father would be 'chuffed'.)

Elegran Wed 20-Aug-14 21:03:26

No maths or arithmetic ability needed for the second one, Joy if that is any help.

I have found it really nostalgic to be working at these puzzles - when I finally get one I can hear my father speaking. He was always interested in puzzles and ciphers, and other kinds of puzzles, and contributed to the church magazines wherever he lived, but I was not aware that he had written these as far back as 1945. It should not have been a surprise as he was sending and receiving messages in cipher in 1940, when he was in France.

Elegran Wed 20-Aug-14 22:18:38

Can I make a few suggestions without actually giving anything away? If you know all this already, then ignore it.

1) There are two types of cipher - ones where the same letters are used as are in the message, but juggled around in some kind of system, and ones where each letter is substituted for a different one in the alphabet. Sometimes the substitution is very simple, sometimes the pattern varies.

2) There are 26 letters in the alphabet. The first is A, the 26th is Z.

3) Some letters occur more often than others in any typical bit of text. for instance, E,A,I,T,O,N,S, are a lot more common than Q,X,J,G,B,F. The most common letter is E, so the most common letter in an encrypted message is likely to be an E (but not always!)

4) It may help to write out the alphabet to keep in front of you, either across the page or down one side.. Write it backwards as well, and the numbers 1 to 26. It saves a lot of counting backwards and forwards on your fingers.

JoyBloggs Thu 21-Aug-14 20:12:27

Elegran Good to read the background info re your father, very interesting. I've always enjoyed this sort of puzzle and have solved the four brainteasers.

Elegran Thu 21-Aug-14 20:16:00

Time for the next, then, Joy I shall have to go and unearth it to post it. Back shortly.

PS - with the answers in front of you, you can see why my father was so well liked as a teacher.

Elegran Thu 21-Aug-14 20:27:31

Number five

CWW JH ZQX NCQELK UJLW PPH ZQX ICYI EQQI WGUC XGOP

JoyBloggs Thu 21-Aug-14 21:16:05

Elegran Thank you! Just off for an early night, so I shall have to save this for tomorrow smile

dustyangel Thu 21-Aug-14 22:06:54

Thanks Elegran, i'm going to save it for tomorrow as well. smile

JoyBloggs Sat 23-Aug-14 10:47:20

Elegran Number 5 took a long time and I almost gave up... But the message it revealed made it worth the hard 'work'!

Ana Sat 23-Aug-14 10:54:18

Just got number 4!grin (probably the easiest - don't think I'll get the rest)

Elegran Sat 23-Aug-14 11:10:37

Don't give up, Ana Each one you do gets your mind a bit more in tune with how to do them.

Elegran Sat 23-Aug-14 11:11:13

More general advice - If the same group of letters reappears more than once, chances are it is the same word, and if it is a short word (one, two or three letters) then there are not all that many words it can be. so a one-letter word could probably be I or A , a three-letter AND or THE a two-letter one IS or AT, and so on.
No guarantee that it is, of course, but worth trying whatever shift gave that result on the rest of the message.

Elegran Sat 23-Aug-14 11:13:01

Number 6 -

JOUP UIF VBMMFZ PG EFBUI SPEF UIF TJY IVOESFE

JoyBloggs Sat 23-Aug-14 11:35:26

Elegran Think I have done number six, but am I right in thinking the first letter of the third word should be 'W'?