CLOSED:EU referendum Q&A with Labour MP Gisela Stuart and Lib Dem Baroness Sal Brinton

Given that Gisela Stewart has been on tv recently I thought I’d bump this thread up so I can compare what she’s saying now to what she said several years ago.

I thought I'd bump this thread up so we can compare what Gisella Stuart promised as opposed to what the country will actually get now that we are definitely leaving the EU.

Sorry, Pamela, but is that all you think we are concerned about, travel? I hope that's a joke.

Most people that I know are voting out and are doing so in the firm belief that some years of difficulty are worth the long term benefits that should come from being in control of our country.
Why aren't the Leave campaign crediting us with the sense to see that all will not be roses from the word go. In opposition why don't the Remains see that those who don't have travel as their main concern are certain that the EU can't be negotiated with.

Q: If the current President of the EU states that this governance system does not work for the 28 bloc countries and needs reform, who will be employed to make these changes to suit all member countries? Given that it took the Chilcot Enquiry from 2003 to ascertain if the invasion of Iraq was legal, is reform of the EU actually achievable?

One of the questions that was answered on here was what would happen to EU nationals living in the UK.
Gisela Stuart said nothing would happen. This does not say so.

fullfact.org/europe/expats-and-brexit/

What it says is that nobody knows. It would be part of the negotiations.

Everyone should read these responses. Thank you, GNHQ.

Gracesgran

Following on from Suz12 could each of you say what you believe it costs us for membership of the EU, and what it costs Germany and what it costs France? So far I have not see our costs related to other countries costs.

GISELA STUART (Leave) According to figures from 2014, the UK is the third largest contributor to the EU budget, with Germany and France coming in first and second respectively. Our net contribution is almost £10 billion every year – enough to spend an extra £100 million on our NHS every week.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) The Institute for Fiscal Studies has stated in 2014 our net contribution to the EU was £5.7bn a year. This is 24p per person per day. Or £214 per household per year – compared with £3,000 per household per year in benefits – a return of 14 to 1. Germany pays the most into the EU budget, followed by France. The UK is the third largest contributor to the EU budget – and we pay almost only half of what Germany contributes.

nannyto5

The Leave Campaign talk as though they will be immediately running the country. Surely we have an elected government whose job it will be to conduct future business, whether we have voted In or Out. Please can you give me some clarity on this? It's really worrying me and will probably influence the way I vote. Thank you

GISELA STUART (Leave) This is not a general election and the Vote Leave campaign are not an alternative Government. I’m a Labour MP and the current Conservative Government will remain in place until the next general election. But what we are doing is proposing alternatives that a Government of any Party could introduce if we vote to leave the EU. Policies like an Australian style points based immigration system, a cut in VAT on domestic fuel and investing more in the NHS and education are only possible if we take back control and leave the EU.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) Britain is an independent and sovereign state, and any decision about UK policy will be decided by the British government. The government is not on the ballot paper next Thursday. The decision we take then will have implications far beyond the life of any one government. We are a campaign committed to making the positive and patriotic case to remain in the EU, so it is not for us to speculate about future political developments in the UK. But it is important to know that Leave campaigners have a long history of opposing worker’s rights, environmental law and advocating privatisation of the NHS. They cannot be trusted with the future of the country.

bbb58

My concern with the leave campaign is that it is increasingly being associated (on the street as it were) with a form of racism - ie leave to stop the country flooding with people from the EU looking for a better life. Clearly this is not the intention of the campaigners, but I guess it is inevitable that the 'keep Britainn for the British' brigade would hijack/jump all over this as a primary reason to get out. I would be interested to hear what both of you have to say about this

GISELA STUART (Leave) People who come to this country in search of work clearly make an enormous contribution to our economy and make our country more diverse. I am an immigrant. I was born in Germany and came to Britain in the 1970s. This country has always been open to immigrants – it is built into our national identity and therefore part of who we are. But while we are in the EU our immigration system is forced to discriminate against people wanting to come and work here from outside the EU – so we have to limit access to skilled workers like nurses, care assistants and doctors from countries like Australia, Canada, India and Pakistan. Inside the EU we are also part of an area of free movement of labour of almost 500 million people who have an automatic right to come to live and work here. EU immigration that is uncontrolled and without consent is putting downward pressure on wages and makes it impossible to plan to meet demand in public services like the NHS, education and housing.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) It is very disappointing to see clear elements of xenophobia, homophobia and sexism in the Leave campaigns. Most recently, Leave campaigners had to answer questions about campaign material using the terrorist attacks in Brussels and the mass shooting in Orlando to make a political point about our EU membership. We do not believe that these views have a place in Britain, and discriminatory sentiment should certainly not be exploited to further the aims of a political campaign.

Heather51

Why is is referendum being described as a 'once in a lifetime referendum'? If the Remain vote wins by a small margin, and the EU subsequently treats us like 'the poor relations' for daring to try to leave why can't we have another referendum in a couple of years time?

GISELA STUART (Leave) The Government have said that this is a once in a lifetime decision for Britain and it is hard to see another opportunity. The Government has introduced legislation that would mean there would be a referendum to approve any future transfer of power to the EU but has said specifically that there would be no future referendum on Turkey joining. That’s why it’s so important to Vote Leave, to take back control and to avoid the risks we could face if we choose to remain.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) Politicians across the political spectrum, including those campaigning for us to leave – have rejected the idea of a Brexit ‘Neverendum’, and have been clear that this referendum is a once in a lifetime vote on EU membership.

I campaigned in 1975 as a 20 year old, hoping and believing that it would be good for the UK. Whilst not perfect - but what is? - we have gained so much more from being in Europe over the decades.

I'm voting for us to remain in Europe this time, not just for me, but also for my children and my brand new identical twin granddaughters born last month. For me, it is as much about building for their future in an increasingly competitive and global world. I want the UK to be a strong influencer and participant in Europe, and that will build our strength globally too.

flicky

My instinctive vote is stay, based partly on a list of public figures (eg Donald Trump) who are urging us to leave and partly because I think there is safety in numbers and we are a small island who could otherwise be cut adrift. But then I saw something on Facebook about Switzerland who are not members of the EU, listing all the reasons why it's a great place to live and now, frankly, I am confused. Can we be like Switzerland? Or would the reality be very different?

GISELA STUART (Leave) We will be like the UK, by which I mean that we will be able to reach a deal that works for the EU and for us. We are the fifth largest economy in the world and once we leave the EU we would continue to trade with Europe, but would also be able to forge new free trade deals with the emerging markets of the rest of the world such as China and India.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) The Leave campaign have said they do not want to retain access to the single market and have proposed many alternative models, of which Switzerland is one. Switzerland has spent years trying to negotiate free trade deals, but still only has partial access to the single market. In order to get access to the single market, Switzerland still has to make a significant contribution to the EU budget and Swiss firms have to comply with EU rules. Switzerland also has to accept free movement of people, and there are three times as many EU migrants per head than in the UK. Treasury analysis shows that if the UK were to leave the single market and adopt a Swiss model, the economy would be hit by the tune of £4,300 a year per household.

To give a specific example, Switzerland wanted to bid into the Universities and Science fund known as Horizon 2020, because just like the UK, their Universities and Research are very good and they thought they might be able to do as well as the UK (we put in £5bn, but get back £8bn because of our universities' strength in research). Because they didn't want to comply with the EU rules on free movement, they have been downgraded in status, would have to pay more to participate as well as prove they would comply with the rules fore they can even start. 2 years on they have still not been able to meet these requirements. This example is really important - Switzerland have discovered that there is a real problems of not being in the EU club, both costing them more and having to meet rules they don't like.

gillyknits

Are you aware that auditors have been unable to sign off on the E.U. accounts for many years? If this was a business there would be questions as to why income and outgoings are not balancing.Why have there been no enquiries into this matter?

GISELA STUART (Leave) The EU is wasteful, undemocratic and unaccountable - its accounts have not been given a clean bill of health in 20 years. Our best option is to vote to Leave and to take back control of our own financial arrangements.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) Oh dear, this is a myth that those who want us to leave keep repeating, even though they know it isn't true! The reality is that the EU’s accounts have been signed off every year since 2007. The body that does so is the European Court of Auditors. The BBC’s independent ‘EU Referendum Reality Check’ has confirmed this. Regarding your second question, the signing-off of the EU’s accounts is a separate issue from the balance of the EU’s budget. The EU is banned by its own Treaty from running a budget deficit – revenue and expenditure must be in balance.

patsykelly

What are your 3 most persuasive arguments for staying/leaving?These need to be supported with facts please.

GISELA STUART (Leave) There is one fundamental argument and that is that the EU has taken control of an extraordinary range of measures that affect our lives, wellbeing and security. The House of Commons Library says that the nearly 60% of our laws originate in the EU. These laws are made by people we don’t elect and cannot remove. The people of this country fought for hundreds of years to establish our democratic rights. Today the power of our vote is being eroded by our membership of the EU. In areas like taxation, the economy, our borders and the future of our NHS the EU means that we are losing the ability to control the laws that affect our lives. We have one chance to take back control on 23 June by choosing to Vote Leave.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) The economy and jobs, security, and Britain’s place in the world are the main three reasons for me to vote Remain.

Firstly, our economy is stronger in Europe – through access to the single market of 500 million people, and all the jobs, lower prices and financial security this brings for British families.

Secondly, the threats we face today are global in nature – whether it is tackling terrorism, cyber-crime, a more assertive Russia or even climate change – and international collaboration is the surest route to influence and impact.

And thirdly, we choose to co-operate with our neighbours in Europe because it makes us stronger, safer and better off. Nobody forces us to do this and the EU does not control us. The UK is highly influential in the EU, and our membership amplifies our influence and power.

Tegan

Can anyone supply a figure re how much we pay into the EU and how much we get back? I keep hearing mentions of how much we pay in but don't hear what we get in return [which, I would imagine, more than balances that figure out]. Also, most of my family work in engineering and their employers have advised vote to stay in. As manufacturing in this country seems to be constantly reducing, what will happen if we leave? Which manufacturing industries will be better off? And what of this talk about our energy bills being much less if we leave. Is this a fact or just supposition?

GISELA STUART (Leave) The cost to the UK of EU membership is £350 million a week. The EU then gives us a rebate which they can review. In the last review Tony Blair agreed to reduce the UK’s rebate in return for reform of the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP). Of course our rebate was cut immediately but the CAP has never been reformed. The EU then spends some of the £350 million a week in the UK on our behalf on things like agriculture, university research and think tanks like the London based Institute for Fiscal Studies. That leaves a figure of about £10 billion a year which the EU keeps and we never see again. This is being used for example as part of the £2 billion that the EU is spending to help five countries including Turkey join the EU. Therefore even after you take account of all the EU funding the UK gets back in return, our membership of the EU means that we transfer a net figure of £10 billion to the EU that we never see again.

I represent a constituency in Birmingham which is home to a very successful car industry. The UK is not a leading car producer because of our EU membership. We sell cars around the world because they are high quality and superbly designed and engineered products that consumers want to buy. We are not going to stop selling cars if we leave the EU any more than the Germans are going to stop selling cars to us.

The most recent trade data from the Office for National Statistics shows that the share of our exported goods going to the EU has fallen steadily from 60.1% in 2000 to 47.0% in 2015. The same is true of the share of our export of services to the EU which is down from 54.3% to 43.7%. Our trade with the rest of the world however is rising, reaching a record level in April this year. This is despite the fact that the EU controls our ability to agree trade deals with major emerging economies. If we took back control over trade policy we could create a further 300,000 jobs by striking new trade deals. The EU Commission itself estimates that its failure to conclude five major trade agreements on our behalf has cost the UK more than 280,000 jobs.

Finally on energy, the poorest households spend three times more of their income on household energy bills than the richest households spend. As long as we are in the EU, we are not allowed to cut VAT on domestic fuel. When we Vote Leave, we will be able to scrap this unfair and damaging tax.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) According to the IFS the UK made gross contributions of £11.3 billion in 2014, equivalent to about 0.6% of UK GDP or 1.5% of UK public spending. However, the UK received back over £5.6 billion from the EU in 2014 and hence its net contribution to the EU budget was £5.7 billion in that year. In addition, the Confederation of Business Industry has found that Britain benefits 14 times more than the budget contribution.

The overwhelming majority of Britain’s business, including manufacturers, want the UK to remain inside of Europe. UK manufacturing relies on full access to the EU’s single market, which allows goods to be traded tariff-free and for Britain to help set the rules of doing business. Quitting the EU’s single market would lead to a recession and put jobs at risk. Vote Leave can’t dismiss this warning.

You asked specifically about engineering. The Engineering Employers Federation are very clear that it is important for engineering and manufacturing across the board to remain in the EU. www.eef.org.uk/campaigning/campaigns-and-issues/current-campaigns/manufacturing-and-europe.

Efficiency standards introduced by the EU for household appliances mean that families use less energy and will save £158 per household per year by 2020. The Chief Executive of Centrica has also made it clear that being in the EU keeps energy prices lower.

JessM

Virtually every authority in economics, both individuals and organisations, agree that we will have at very least a brief recession if we vote to leave. Given that our economy is currently not on good form, with the national debt running at over £1.6 trillion (1.6 with 11 zeros) and growing rapidly because we can't afford to reduce it despite the austerity... And given there would be a period of economic uncertainty that would start on June 24th and carry on for the 2 years it would take for us to actually leave the EU... How long do you think this recession might last? Please give a range - between x years and y years.

GISELA STUART (Leave) There are many experts who believe that Britain – the fifth largest economy in the world - would prosper outside of the EU. In a 2015 report, the Bank of England identified the ‘integrity of the UK legal system, the availability of particular skills and services, and the status of the English language’ as important reasons unrelated to the UK’s membership of the EU why the UK had attracted foreign direct investment. This won’t change if we leave the EU. The various organisations including the UK Treasury who are forecasting recession if we leave the EU don’t take account in their forecasts of the risks we would face if we stayed in the EU. The EU economy is broken. The EU has had to impose harsh austerity measures across the Eurozone forcing countries to accept privatisation, pension cuts and cuts to welfare even when the people of those countries have elected governments that oppose the austerity measures. The result has been the destruction of jobs leading to years of low growth and high unemployment across the Eurozone. Youth unemployment now averages more than 20% and is 45% in Spain and 51% in Greece. This is a tragedy that has robbed a generation of young Europeans of their futures. The EU’s own economic mismanagement brought this about and there is no sign that they have an answer. If we remain in the EU we are tied to the fate of the Eurozone economy and we cannot control our own economic future. No-one can predict the future, but we know that the EU economy is broken and I believe that the UK has the skills, creativity and energy to be successful once we leave the EU and have control of our own economic destiny and trade.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) I'm not an economist, so I have to rely on the key people and bodies who really understand the risks. I cannot ignore the stark warnings from the Bank of England and the Treasury that leaving the EU would lead to an economic recession. The fact is that Britain would be permanently poorer as a result of Britain leaving the EU. HM Treasury have analysed the impact of Brexit and their report concludes we would be worse off in all scenarios, leading to the economy being worse off by £4,300 for every household by 2030, and in the short term leading to recession and unemployment to rise by over half a million. And so many more independent bodies are also clear that there would be severe economic implications if we leave the EU, including the International Monetary Fund, the OECD, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the CBI, Price Waterhouse Coopers and many more.

durhamjen

What will happen to EU nationals living in this country if we vote to leave?

GISELA STUART (Leave) There have been a lot of attempts by David Cameron and George Osborne to scare people in this debate. No one from other EU countries lawfully resident now would be removed from the UK and no UK citizens would be forced to leave other European countries if we left the EU – those rights are protected under international law. The EU’s own Charter of Fundamental Rights prevents the expulsion of British citizens from the EU after we Vote Leave.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) With the dog-whistle anti-immigration message of the Leave campaign, it is unsurprising that citizens of EU countries living in Britain are concerned about their futures here. On this, as on so much else, the Leave campaign just don’t know what would happen to EU citizens living in Britain if we leave. Leaving Europe would be a hammer blow to our economy, putting jobs and growth at risk. And as has made clear today, losing any of the hundreds of thousands of EU citizens who work in our public services would damage our NHS.

Gracesgran

How can I find out if we have a net benefit in my region of net loss from the EU?

GISELA STUART (Leave) It doesn’t matter where you live in the UK, we pay far more to the EU than we get back. Membership of the EU costs us £350 million a week. We get some of this back through a rebate and some more of our money is spent for us by the EU on UK farming and university research. But half of our money – about £10 billion each year - never comes back to the UK. We can take back control of that money and spend it on our priorities if we vote to Leave. We can spend the same money the EU spends in the UK, for example on agriculture and research, and still have billions of pounds left to spend on things that matter to us like the NHS.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) All the regions and nations benefit from being in the world’s largest single market. Britain as a whole benefits greatly from the EU. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has stated in 2014 our net contribution to the EU was £5.7bn a year. This is 24p per person per day. Or £214 per household per year – compared with £3,000 per household per year in benefits – a return of 14 to 1. When the UK’s rebate and receipts are taken into account, for every £1 of tax paid in the UK a little over 1p goes to the EU.

durhamjen

What will happen to the NHS?

GISELA STUART (Leave) We all know that the NHS is already overstretched. In order to solve the crisis in our NHS we need to tackle two things: supply and demand. By leaving the EU we will we be able to invest more money into our NHS. Our membership of the EU costs us £350 million each week and although we get some back, half of this money – your money – we never see again. If we leave the EU we get control of that money and can spend it on our priorities like the NHS, housing and education. Being part of the EU means being part of an area of 500 million people with a right to move freely to any country. This area includes areas like the Eurozone with low growth and very high unemployment – youth unemployment in Spain is 45% and in Greece 51%. The Eurozone economy is broken and that failure is driving young people to want to come and live in the UK. That is putting huge pressure on our public services. Unless we can control free movement of people from the EU our public services cannot plan for the level of demand. If we leave the EU we can introduce a fair points based immigration system, control the level of immigration and help protect our NHS. We can also ease pressure on school places and plan to build enough houses for our young people.

There are many highly skilled and valuable NHS workers who have come to the UK as immigrants from countries around the world. If we leave the EU they can still stay and work in the UK. While we remain in the EU, our immigration system has to discriminate against people wanting to come to live and work here from outside the EU – for example from countries like India, Pakistan, Australia and Canada. That makes it harder for the NHS to recruit highly skilled English speaking staff from outside the EU. If we leave and adopt a fair points based immigration system we can hire the skilled workers the NHS needs from countries around the world.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) Treasury analysis shows that the economic damage from leaving would leave our tax receipts facing an annual £36 billion black hole. We mustn't forget that the NHS is funded from tax, both individual and businesses, so economic damage from leaving really can affect our NHS. That’s the equivalent of NHS England losing over a third of its budget. Hospitals, ambulance services, and health professionals are all at risk if we leave Europe.

Over 100 000 EU nationals work in the health and social care sector. If we left Europe, our ability to staff the NHS would be put at risk, causing waiting times to go up and the quality of care to go down.

The people campaigning to leave the EU, including Nigel Farage and Vote Leave Director Matthew Elliot, have for years campaigned to privatise the NHS. They shouldn’t be trusted with the future of our National Health Service.

Just 1% of government spending goes to the EU. If we left the EU, the Treasury estimates public spending would be hit by £36 billion. It’s simply not true that leaving the EU would free up resources for the NHS. It won’t. Leaving means less money for the NHS, not more.

Jane10

Are all the financial institutions which strongly recommend remaining in the EU wrong?

GISELA STUART (Leave) Economic forecasts and predictions are notoriously difficult to make and frequently wrong. In the case of many of these recent reports, not only have these bodies been unable to make accurate forecasts for the British economy over recent years, but none predicted the great recession of 2008 and many predicted disaster for the UK unless we joined the Euro. They were wrong then and it is highly likely that they are wrong now. A large number of business people believe that we would be better and stronger as a country outside the EU because it would give us greater control of our trade, borders and laws.

SAL BRINTON (Remain) The single market is the best economic relationship Britain can have with Europe. It allows us to trade without tariffs right across the continent and it gives us a say over the rules of doing business. That means it expands our home market from 65 million consumers to 500 million. So British firms can do business in Berlin under the same rules as in Brighton. I know this from family experience - my husband's firm, a specialist engineering research firm, work and sell extensively into Europe. He's been with them for over thirty years and they say the Single Market has made selling into Europe with common standards so much easier than it was before. Easier has meant they have more staff and make more profit, which in turn means more tax for public services in the UK. Good for the company and good for the UK!

The Treasury estimates that between 3-4 million jobs are linked to our trade with Europe. No alternative to membership of the single market is remotely as good for Britain. The other countries in Europe are not going to give Britain a better deal than the one they have because it is not in their interests to do so. Being in the Single Market means more jobs, lower prices, and more financial security for British families. This has been backed up by the Bank of England, the IMF, the IFS, the NIESR, the LSE, the World Trade Organisation and 9 out of 10 economists.

For obvious reasons we have delayed putting up the answers until today. But they will follow very shortly

David Cameron has stated that leaving the EU would be "like putting a bomb under our economy".

With this in mind, could you say whether you think such a crucial decision should ever have been put to a public vote?

Following on from Suz12 could each of you say what you believe it costs us for membership of the EU, and what it costs Germany and what it costs France? So far I have not see our costs related to other countries costs.

The leave camp have said that the £350 million that we give to the Euro will be spent on the nhs, fuel duty and other things If we leave the Eu. Can the leave campaign guarantee that this will be the case? Can they guarantee that this money will not be used to reduce the national debt?

rosesarered....Quite right,hence the wording on my comment !!