Groomed. A National scandal Ch 4 - Wed 30 April 9 pm

I’m not disputing, or minimising the absolute brazen attitudes shown by the men in the so called grooming gangs. The damage they do to children who are already emotionally and psychologically harmed, is immense and life long.
I keep coming back to the question, why is child sexual abuse such a common behaviour?
Why is joining the gang rape of an 11 year old out of her head on drugs/alcohol in any way attractive ?
Why is introducing / grooming your 3 year old daughter/niece/boy child sexually appealing to adult men.
I recognise the OP is focussed on the ‘grooming gangs’. They aren’t the only organised abuse gangs operating. We have small children used in videos, suffering horrific abuse, crying yet some people/men find this sexually arising.

It's the same victim blaming that the police used during the ripper enquiry, it was somehow OK for the murders to remain unsolved when the victims were perceived to be prostitutes but once an "innocent" victim was murdered they took the murders more seriously, just blame the women and girls, honestly describing the children as prostitutes and treating them as such is also abusive

Sorry that comes across as somewhat brusque.

However, as well as many of us being very aware of events for years, we've had 4 threads on the issues since January, others before, and on each one we've seen an attempt to focus only on the grooming and abuse by Asian Gangs sometimes to the exclusion of all the issues raised on this thread...

..... the very helpful suggestions (including from one poster who has worked in the field) how resources are needed to deal with these problems still happening right now.

Well known and accepted.

I can recommend "Broken and Betrayed' by Jayne Senior. It is a very well written account of her time as a youth leader in Rotherham. The failure to act by the police and social services was not accidental, it was deliberate.

Yes there were specific issues with some of the gangs but we were not dealing well with gangs or indeed individuals who sexually abused others in that period or before.

It was common for victims not to be believed and assumptions being made about them and low rates of prosecution.

It certainly wasn't all about the racist issue despite the narratives that have been created around it. Why do people persist in continually only referring to non white abuse during a certain period when we have to look at a history of changes in the ability to identify and prosecute all the crimes and look ahead to "what now".

Yes these grooming gangs have been going on for over thirty years .. a friend of mine her sisters daughter was groomed and had a son who is not 30 which her parents have brought up . All governments were to frightened of being called racist to help these children Gordon Brown wouldn't help so sad

Quite right to criticise those who failed to act specifically because of what you allude to, Primrose, back when it was happening, but what matters now is putting the Jay report into effect and proper resourcing and training whatever the backgrounds of the offenders are.

I don't think winterwhite was dismissive of Maggie Oliver or her story and wonderful work, just literally she hadn't heard of her.

winterwhite

I'm afraid I haven't heard of Maggie Oliver. Victim support is vital so this sounds timely.

IMO these documentaries seem to dwell too much on the alleged shortcomings of police officers and social workers, which does no good except to make these jobs even more difficult to recruit to.
We need more focus on how to better fund these services, so that burn-out in these important roles is not so high. And we need much better support for parents of teenagers. And we need to make sure that the government acts on its knowledge that these issues matter and are difficult, and that it funds them accordingly. Now.

Maggie Oliver was a serving detective in the Police. She was aware of these Asian grooming gangs and these young kids confided in her. She realised the problem was massive and far bigger than she first thought. She spoke to colleagues in the Police, social services, teachers, children’s homes etc who all knew what was going on but dare not say anything for fear of being called racist.

She was so furious and upset that she resigned from the Police knowing that she could do more if she set up her own Foundation.

winterwhite

I'm afraid I haven't heard of Maggie Oliver. Victim support is vital so this sounds timely.

IMO these documentaries seem to dwell too much on the alleged shortcomings of police officers and social workers, which does no good except to make these jobs even more difficult to recruit to.
We need more focus on how to better fund these services, so that burn-out in these important roles is not so high. And we need much better support for parents of teenagers. And we need to make sure that the government acts on its knowledge that these issues matter and are difficult, and that it funds them accordingly. Now.

They "dwell" on the police and social services because they are the agencies who have let all these young women down. Perhaps Google Maggie Oliver, before being dismissive of her.

Very good point. Until you find out what actually really happens, it sounds far milder.

Galaxy and TerriBull many thanks.

Language is so important.

I do agree Galaxy "child prostitute" the term really shouldn't exist. Children are mere pawns, used, sold, manipulated, coerced, bartered and abused the child cannot make a conscious choice whatever the context, either here or a poverty ridden country abroad or referring to past times. The term kind of sanctions something so very wrong giving the men who consort with a minor a warped lack of their own complicity, in a "it wasn't my fault, the child tempted me and made themselves available" They know what they do is wrong, but it's blame shifting.

Blaming the children is part of the process, it is part of the abuse and I guess how the men 'justify' it to themselves.
I know it seems a small thing but I do think we should think about the language we as a society use, we see the term child prostitute used or child porn, you can't be a child prostitute, it is abuse and should be named as such. There is something about the term grooming gang that sits uncomfortably with me as well, I know it is used to explain what happens but to me it seems to minimise the crime.

Barbadosbelle

Mrs Meldrew

Shame that the BBC haven't been so forthcoming in the past, when they appeared unable to formulate the words 'black', 'Asian' or 'Pakistani'.
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Not so. Your prejudice.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-29110085

2014 report.

Mt61

Sadly, most of the organisations you reference are consistently proving themselves to be 'unfit for purpose'.
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Mrs Meldrew

Shame that the BBC haven't been so forthcoming in the past, when they appeared unable to formulate the words 'black', 'Asian' or 'Pakistani'.
.

Wyllow3

fancythat

Who do you mean by "apologists"?

As mentioned in TerriBull's posts above, basically men blaming the girls and making excuses.

In which case s good question.

Will come back later.

I’d hoped the successful prosecutions and the way Starmer and Nazir Afzal spoke out about the need to protect the girls as well as prosecute offenders would slowly improve things. Instead, I worry the abusers feel empowered. Prosecutions for rape are rare.
We often see comments on this forum suggesting the latest celeb to be accused of sex offences/harassment and denying it, are somehow more believable than their accusers.

These girls (and boys) usually share similar chaotic, neglectful family backgrounds, many have been sexually abused in early childhood. They’re of ‘out of control’, school refusers who drink and take drugs. They’re targeted because these abusers know these children are often seen as unreliable witnesses.

We need to invest in our children, including following Jay and setting up multi agency teams, working under one roof, well resourced, with advice from clinical psychologists

fancythat

Who do you mean by "apologists"?

As mentioned in TerriBull's posts above, basically men blaming the girls and making excuses.

Iam64

Mt61 - the stress police and sw face daily would shock many.
I share the anger expressed about the way these girls are failed. Nearly thirty years ago I was told yes we know it’s a force wide issue, we haven’t the resources to deal with it. The DM report confirms the same denial by men and way these children are viewed as complicit remains an issue in its prevention and prosecution

That is what Justin Welby said too - he felt overwhelmed by the scale.

Resources should be put to it.
No good saying it is all too big to handle.

Who do you mean by "apologists"?

This years proposals to implement Jay report further

www.jordanssolicitors.co.uk/insights/abuse-and-redress-schemes/the-labour-governments-update-on-responding-to-the-iicsa-inquiry-report

short document, items listed in last half.

But so far to go. How can we stop the "apologists"?

As Iam said Jay spent hours and hours interviewing victims and the testimony has been there to see. She made 20 recommendations.
If this film helps bring the need for resourcing to the forefront and pressure to put the recommendations into practice then its worth it.