Dialects and lazy speech - there is a difference

I never, ever, say firty free, but the strange thing is, it sounds as if I do, with my accent.

It seems that there is a difference opinion about dialect /accents or lazy speech. I hate to hear firty free farsand rather than 33,000. pronounced with th Also th replaced by v. (uverwise) Sentences starting with SO.
I do like to hear regional accents and dialects. There are some fascinating and very descriptive words used in dialects Long may they continue.

Any form of english is acceptable, if it is a means to communicate with others.
For those who say they can't understand, well, I feel sorry for you.

Perhaps that illustrates why it isnt a good idea to be too rigid in our thinking.

Totally agree. I found him incomprehensible and certainly not using an acceptable form of English.

Franbern….I absolutely agree with you. I don’t speak ‘posh’ but my pet hate is bad grammar and lazy speech. The BBC are always ‘box ticking’ nowadays and in my humble opinion have gone downhill rapidly.

Although originating from South Wales (love that accent!) I was brought up in England and my school teacher father ensured that we children had an RP accent. This is much appreciated by Mme SS who is French as she finds UK regional accents very difficult to follow.
We moved to Hampshire in the early 60s where the local accent was, in my view, a pleasure to hear. But no longer! It has almost completely been replaced by what I can only describe as a Cockney snarl, thanks, it seems, to the popularity of programmes such as East Enders.
A German friend who spoke excellent English was very puzzled when he heard a couple talking. They mentioned 'Snahs ess'. I translated. They meant 'It's a nice house'.

i think - but please correct me- that people from Kent say "war-er" and not water. Free and not three. there is no T in the words that have a T
It is annoying at times but the most annoying is those people that keep saying"like" several times in a sentence

It’s good to see Paddy McGuinness and Freddie Flintoff with Lancs. accents on mainstream TV! ? Makes a change from Rylan Clark (he’s annoying?). I must admit that I’m biased.?

I'm not "with it" (sick is not the in word now. It's "lit")

I think the type of speech pattern referred to is nothing to do with snobbishness but everything to do with the BBC trying to be 'with it' or whatever the current parlance is, sick, perhaps?

When listening to some of the continuity presenters I wonder if I am deliberately being disenfranchised.

I listen to Radio 3 and the continuity announcers and presenters have the most beautiful voices. Every word is discernible, they sound interesting and dare I say it, intelligent (I shall be slaughtered for that but it's true).

I should imagine everyone, wherever they're from, have had that problem.

My heart sinks sometimes when the phone is answered by people with a strong accent.

I find Geordie quite difficult to decipher.

I loved from India to Scotland to Liverpool to Birmingham to Manchester to Sussex - each area influenced my pronunciation. I always thought less of anyone who “picked me up” on my speech. What values do they have? And some call centres employ folk in areas with a strong local accent for a good reason - research shows we trust them more than those with a generic or RP voice. So, there is a clue there…

Like SueDonim, I had to ask someone from the phone company to speak more slowly the other day. The accent was quite strong, but intelligible once the speed was reduced.
Real-time captioning on TV sometimes makes speech look really funny, as does saying your messages into a GN post. I often have to go back and check what I’ve said in case it’s auto corrected it into something really weird.

Nannarose

There are plenty of accents and dialects that 'drop' certain letters or words.

I had my speech 'corrected' so much that I now only speak a 'received' version of my natural speech. This is also slightly to do with the fact that in my adult life I moved around, which knocks the corners off a local accent.
Everywhere I went 'posh' people would tell me 'oh it's not a proper accent they speak here, it's just lazy'. No-one seemed able to define a 'proper accent'.

Now I am back where I belong, and 'local historians' want us to record 'old folk' talking, so our 'lovely local speech' is not lost, dropped letters & ungrammatical constructions and all!
I feel patronised, as if only middle-class people get to decide whose speech is worthy.

Sorry, Franbern, it's a real 'red flag' for me!! And I have lived in areas where the dropped 't' is a feature of the speech.
Of course I don't dispute your right to be irritated by certain ways of speaking.

I could not agree more. I personally love hearing different accents and dialects, it makes us who we are.
There are very few (if any) areas in the UK who speak "properly".

It's all to do with sociolinguistics.

There seems to be one particular presenter on BBC at the moment who doesn’t enunciate his words properly. I get the feeling that it’s the Beeb trying to be diverse and keeping in touch with ‘the working class’ and ethnic groups. I just find his sloppy speech annoying.
Accents are fine (mine’s Lancashire), but poor grammar and lazy speech aren’t.

I can understand paddy mcwhatsit perfectly.
When I used to visit the highlands regularly, I soon became accustomed to their accent, and they to mine.
They couldn't copy me though, nor me them.

It just doesnt come naturally.

people tend to end up with the accent that is dominant around them when they are aged about 15.
i remember reading that by researchers.
so how their parents speak is not the main influence. esp as at age 15 children are moving away from their parents. they'd rather be with friends. that is their social world; not their parents'.
i hate people saying haitch is incorrect. it is not.
i never heard aitch at all until i was in my 20s.
was everyone around me lazy or stupid. they were not. haitch is probably said by more people in the british isles than aitch.
is curry nicer than chilli. you can argue, assert as much as you like for your preference, but to state it as fact just sounds silly, or insecure/immature.
like the child who stamped her foot and declared, no granny, no ! it's not a looking-glass, it's a mirror.

I agree about Stacey Dooley and her exaggerated accent really grates. However I do think that Estuary English has been adopted by some people who are desperate to sound 'cool' and encouraged by the BBC who have their own agenda.

I appreciate clear speech, preferably with a not too strong dialect. Thick, heavy accents can make words undecipherable to those of us who come from a different area This not "snobbish" just common sense. Sir David Attenborough for example is so easy to understand whereas Paddy McGuinness mangles his words and makes life difficult for many.

It is code switching welbeck. Dave Omorgie (rapper) does this in his songs. He uses Jamaican, British, US and Nigerian slang. Fascinating to analyse. Clever bloke.

pat9

It is Lazy speech. You have to use your tongue to pronounce T and other letters. Now we are losing L - hospiaw, medaw etc How can children learn to spell correctly when words are not pronounced properly? BBC announcers and presenters should use RP so that standardised pronunciation is available to be heard.
Dialect is a different matter and can be delightful. It has been around for a long time and is part of the variety of the country "Estuary english" is recent. I never heard it when I was young.

I'm 59 and have always spoken the same, having been bought up in the Thames estuary area.
I haven't invented it all by myself; all of my family and everyone I've met here speak the same.
Originally people were from London, so parts of the speech is cockney.

When I heard a someone with an accent I couldn't place, and asked where the woman came from, she told me she had a proper essex accent.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s also about the presenter’s accent being so overwhelming or grating that even though you understand what’s being said it ruins your enjoyment of the programme.

That is more about the viewer than the presenter. What if your doctor talked in that accent. Would you change doctors?

My snobby Spanish teacher in Leeds 'accused' me of pronouncing a spanish word like a Londoner and told the class that as we all had flat northern accents we should be able to pronounce spanish words correctly. She then asked me where I came from 'London, Miss P'. Got a good laugh from the class but she never forgave me for making her look silly. Only spent the first 2 years of my life in London but with a N London mother & N Yorkshire father I grew up 'bilingual'

I am from the East End Of London but did my best to smooth it out because it was a place to be ashamed of back in the 60's.

I cannot watch any program with Stacy Dooley in because I find her accent ugly to listen to.
She was born and grew up in Luton so I am a bit surprised that her accent is that strong.
I watched a lot of a program called "Police Custody 24 hours" on Channel 4. This was set in Luton yet I never heard Police or the people they arrested speaking that way.
So I wonder if she puts it on a bit?

One of my granddaughters insists on dropping T's in her speech. I find it jars on my me. So far the younger DGC don't drop T's I hope it stays that way.