Anne Boleyn

There is a choice to watch or not to watch. I won’t be watching because it is not authentic enough for me. If others want to watch and aren’t bothered so be it. AB wasn’t chinese, Japanese, black, Asian, a dwarf, all of which are discernible features. I am sure the actress playing her is a good actress but just not for me in this particular role - no problem if she is the next James Bond.

Agree with 25 Avalon. Those that do, enjoy.

You or I might know Anne Boleyn was white, I saw yesterday her brother George is also to be black.
How many Scots teenagers failed their exams for following the Mel Gibsons "Brave Heart "when most of the facts about William Wallace and the history of the time were wrong.

I have also read about the possibility of Henry being Kell positive but thinking about the state of midwifery then and the lack of antibiotics it is probably not surprising so many mothers and babies were lost. Henry's leg would also have been treated. The only problem I have with the new programme is that her story has been told so many times before.

Yammy

You or I might know Anne Boleyn was white, I saw yesterday her brother George is also to be black.
How many Scots teenagers failed their exams for following the Mel Gibsons "Brave Heart "when most of the facts about William Wallace and the history of the time were wrong.

Doesn't matter does it, he was white and so was Mel Gibson.

Well Mel Gibson's Wallace was part blue.....

Is blueing up politically incorrect? I'm not sure.

Yammy

You or I might know Anne Boleyn was white, I saw yesterday her brother George is also to be black.
How many Scots teenagers failed their exams for following the Mel Gibsons "Brave Heart "when most of the facts about William Wallace and the history of the time were wrong.

I'm not sure if you are being serious or ironic, sorry (the vagaries of textual communication).

This is not meant as a revision course for an exam. It is a post-watershed TV drama, with dramatic license, the rules of which are usually understood by the audience.

Alegrias1

I have a theory about James Bond. That "James Bond" is a code name that goes with 007 and there have been lots of people in that position over the years. So it would be no problem at all to have a black Bond. Or a female one, or anything else.

I probably have too much time on my hands Anyway, back to the proper discussion.

Surely 007 is the code name so yes anything goes for who plays the part, man, woman, any colour, age or physical size etc but they can't be James Bond, they'll be 007 Joe Bloggs or 007 Mary Bloggs

I'll be watching. The trailer looks fabulous.

Doodledog

It does rather seem that whiteness is the most important characteristic for some posters.

Whilst I can see that there are some things that would scream as historically inaccurate (Anne wearing a watch, for instance), I wonder how much of what we consider to be 'facts' from history are, in fact, just interpretations that have caught on - often because of one director's view of how to present them?

Even 'facts' about the times we live in are not cast in stone. Ask two people to write an account of Brexit, for instance, and there is a good chance that they will present very different 'facts'. It is the same with history, except that with the distant past such as the Tudor era, there were fewer people who could write, and each time there was a change of dynasty (or in Henry's case, a change of wife) documents and portraits were destroyed, in the manner of a teenager blocking his ex from Facebook and deleting her photos from his timeline?.
There is such a lot that we just don't know, so it is left to dramatists and authors to make a story out of what little information they have to go on.

It is safe to say that Anne was not black, but casting has never really been about getting a replica of the historical character. It is far more about getting someone who fits with the dramatist's interpretation of events.

Just as an actor's hair colour, height, weight etc are not important (to most people) it is surely time that skin colour doesn't matter either? Would anyone say 'I am not watching that programme because it the casting is just to appease redheads. If Damian Lewis said he was going to play the role of a dark haired character, there would be hell to pay'? I doubt it, somehow.

Some historical accuracy is a must.
If the cast were all black then it could work, but not just one or a few characters.It seems to be a case of ‘how controversial and talked about generally can we be’ from the production team.

I am reading a biography on Elizabeth I by Christopher Hibbert that states that Anne Boleyn had a mixed pedigree he hints at Spanish/Morocco and that she was very dark haired with dark eyes and an olive complexion, part of the reason Henry fell for her was that she stood out against the fairer skinned and haired ladies of court. Catherine of Aragon was also Spanish therefore darker haired etc. From the trailer I have seen she still seems to play the part of the assured cunning confident femme fatale, so no change in the storyline.

TV and films are a very visual medium. On radio actors are invisible, so their appearance is unknown. There is another thread deploring using actors who can't manage the accent for the casting of characters whose local links are part of the plot. Perhaps that would be the most noticeable feature on radio?

Interesting article on medium.com>history-of-women>no-anne-boleyn if you can find it doing the genealogy of why AB was not black but also some pertinent comments about artistic license, and white actors blacking up and how people can be misled by what they see on the TV. Don’t forget AB’s daughter was Elisabeth 1st she of the white skin and red hair. Apparently both parents have to have the gene for offspring to have red hair further proving AB was not black. Also mentions Meghan Markle. Do read it.

*Some historical accuracy is a must.
If the cast were all black then it could work, but not just one or a few characters.It seems to be a case of ‘how controversial and talked about generally can we be’ from the production team.*

Why do you think this? I'm interested to know why historical accuracy about someone's appearance is 'a must', unless they have one leg, or something that impacted on their story.

I'm not arguing for arguing's sake - I just don't understand why skin colour matters in this case any more than other physical characteristics.

https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202105/medium-307746-220px-juan-de-flandes-002.jpg%3C/span%3E https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202105/medium-264401-catherine.jpg%3C/span%3E https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202105/medium-658053-download.jpg%3C/span%3E

Some historical accuracy is a must.

A contemporary image of Catherine of Aragon and a couple of actresses who have played her on screen.

I suppose they each have 2 eyes. There, the resemblance ends.

The new series is a play, not a set text for A-Level.

25Avalon

Interesting article on medium.com>history-of-women>no-anne-boleyn if you can find it doing the genealogy of why AB was not black but also some pertinent comments about artistic license, and white actors blacking up and how people can be misled by what they see on the TV. Don’t forget AB’s daughter was Elisabeth 1st she of the white skin and red hair. Apparently both parents have to have the gene for offspring to have red hair further proving AB was not black. Also mentions Meghan Markle. Do read it.

www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/culture/article/2016/08/23/photos-prove-not-all-redheads-are-white

Your link doesn't work Avalon25

Following previous post should read medium.com>history-of-women>no-Anne-Boleyn
iPad playing up. I’ll test it when I have posted. Fingers crossed.

The new series is a play, not a set text for A-Level.

That's exactly the point, Alegrias1

No sorry it won’t put in what I have typed. Anyone interested google ‘Was Anne Boleyn black” and the article is on medium.com, history of Women, no Anne Boleyn was not black. Quite a well balanced article I thought.

Didn’t AB have an extra finger? Should we demand that only actors with this physical characteristic be cast?

If you are interested in history and accuracy, always looking to clarify facts, it jars and is unrealistic to have the heroine to look nothing like she was. I think it's all about doing it because they can, so get on with it, I wouldn't be interested I would expect other things not to be accurate too. We are not exoected now to see any differences in anyone, like the King in the altogether. You can tell people what you want them to think and see all you want, but they see and think what they know.

Anne’s sixth finger, like her third nipple, were rumours put about by Nicolas Sandrrs ( discussed upthread), and very unlikely to be true.

I take your point though. The obsession with skin colour as a measure of ‘accuracy’ is telling.

The obsession with skin colour as a measure of ‘accuracy’ is telling! Why is it telling? What does it tell you?

When I’m watching historical dramas I like them to be reasonably accurate. I wouldn’t like it if AB was played by an Asian actress or an Inuit one.

FWIW I think Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn has been done to the death and I won’t be watching for that reason alone.

The obsession with skin colour as a measure of ‘accuracy’ is telling! Why is it telling? What does it tell you?

It tells me that people are willing to ignore other areas of 'inaccuracy' (largely things that we have no idea about, but also things like weight, height, complexion) quite happily, but are fixated on skin colour being 'right', as otherwise the whole story will be a sop to 'wokeness', children will fail exams because they will believe what they see in a tv drama *, and it won't be worth watching anyway. That does seem to point to a troubling attitude to race, IMO anyway.

* I'd put money on the fact that the most vocal about this issue will also be the ones who sneer at the idea that media studies should be taught in schools and universities, so that teenagers are capable of distinguishing between drama and textbooks.