Anne Boleyn

Katie59 yes it is different- both of those gentlemen you mentioned were leaders in civil rights/ anti apartheid movement and fighting discrimination against those who were defined by their race / skin colour, therefore their skin colour is important as they were treated appallingly on the basis of their colour. Any film or story about their lives would be about race and colour. Why can’t some people comprehend that?

There would be an unholy row for sure if a white Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela was used, riots in the street probably.
But that’s different, isn’t it.

I think people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing. They also didn’t read seamstresses post carefully. She said that woke was a sneering comment to anyone who challenged racism, it didn’t say that the person doing the sneering was racist. Calling something or someone “ woke nonsense” is a sneer, and it is directed to those challenging racism or bringing awareness to it. Just because you personally have never experienced it , does not mean it does not exist.

Lucca, exactly.

I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.

Or why it is such an issue for some people.

Fab post Lucca
Usually I can see both sides of argument. I can flip flop all over the place.
But with this - I honestly can't see why it's an issue.

Sparkling

So are are all the Boleyn family black? Should we not notice, but we do, it’s silly saying otherwise. Try not attending an identity parade because you don’t see looks. You should be accurate when portraying a famous person. Would you approve of a white Martin Luther King? I won’t watch it because it would annoy me, history is my passion. It’s extremely interesting about the Kell gene with Henry whom I wondered if he had damaged his brain whilst jousting and took a bad fall, he suffered extreme concussion afterwards.

Anne Boleyn’s claim to fame had nothing to with her skin colour so it matters not that the role is taken by a black actor. However MLK ‘s claim to fame has everything to do with his being black therefore he couldn’t logically be played by a white actor.

25Avalon

Doodledog you claim I am criticising woke. What I said was Why is it that if anyone criticises woke they are accused of being racist referring to Seamstresses response to Aveline.

The word 'woke' has been appropriated by those who want to disparage people who are trying to be considerate of others.

Whether you (or anyone else) thinks that this consideration is misplaced or not, IMO it is lazy and facile speech, which doesn't explain the thinking behind the accusation, so the person being accused of it is unable to respond.

If there is a reason why a word, a thought or a course of action is wrong, why not say what it is, rather than just throwing around a fairly imprecise term?

Sarnia

Why is a black woman playing Anne Boleyn? Has this been done to appease those who want to change our history? I, for one, am fed up with the people who graffiti, damage and remove anything from British history that they don't agree with. History has happened, it is past, you can't change it but you can learn from it. Anne Boleyn was white so she should be played by a white actress. If Benedict Cumberbatch announced he was playing Martin Luther-King there would be hell to pay.

I totally agree with what you are saying. It taking thing too far and for what purpose. To shove racism in our faces. I’m white and I am not racist. I’m sick to death of this being pushed. I’ve never witnessed racism in my life either so where has all this happened in this generation

Appropriating my culture

So are are all the Boleyn family black? Should we not notice, but we do, it’s silly saying otherwise. Try not attending an identity parade because you don’t see looks. You should be accurate when portraying a famous person. Would you approve of a white Martin Luther King? I won’t watch it because it would annoy me, history is my passion. It’s extremely interesting about the Kell gene with Henry whom I wondered if he had damaged his brain whilst jousting and took a bad fall, he suffered extreme concussion afterwards.

Did any of you see the channel 4 production of Catherine the Great? It was comedic but had actors of all colours and races sprinkled thickly among the Russian and Swedish courts which really only emphasised the absurdity of it all. I actually enjoyed it but it was pretty intentionally daft. A series with Anne Boleyn in it won't be much fun.

Doodledog you claim I am criticising woke. What I said was Why is it that if anyone criticises woke they are accused of being racist referring to Seamstresses response to Aveline.

But we haven't seen it yet, so we don't know what would have made more sense

I give up?

The casting of Anne Boleyn’s brother does rather muddy the waters. The focus changes from an actress chosen for her talent to a family cast to stand out from the rest of the Tudor court, with colour as the chosen distinguishing factor. It would have made more sense to sprinkle some non-white actors among the cast, so that colour was not an issue, rather than to define the Seymours as non-white, which they clearly weren’t.

If I was a cynic I would say that casting Anne Boleyn black was simply to draw attention and discussion to the production.
It certainly has done that!.

Franbern

welbeck

what about a school nativity play.
will the black children never get a chance at mary or joseph, forever consigned to being the black sheep.

For more accuracy, then these black children should actually be in the front of the queue for obtaining the roles of Mary, Joseph, etc. Unless, of course, there are Arab children in the school. Always was fed up with the way the very pretty, blonde haired girl got the part of Mary!!!! Of course, for centuries European artists painted their Jesus pictures with little regard for skin colour accuracy.
Skin colour is pretty unimportant in acting any role.

Well for accuracy maybe the Jewish kids should get the parts?

I agree with a lot of what you said in your post Elegran, but IMO, 25 Avalon's criticism of 'woke' was not as well thought out.

It came across as assuming that because someone black has been cast in the role of AB, it must be because of some sort of 'race card' (dreadful term), or, as the OP suggests, is 'removing something from history'.

We haven't seen the series yet (it airs on June 1st, by the way), so we don't know what impact, if any, the casting has made on it, much less be able to second guess the motives of the casting crew.

Excellent post Elegran. As much as I love anything and everything about the Tudor dynasty I don't think I'll watch this particular production as for me, a black actor taking on the role of Anne Boleyn just doesn't fit.

Hithere

It hasn't been mention yet - the actor playing George Boleyn (Ann's brother) is also not white.

Is that a problem for the some posters too?

I was thinking that when using colour blind casting it might have been better to cast a white actor as her brother, to convince people , unless of course both of them were the best they auditioned for the parts.

I get your frustration but isn’t making up new words what every generation does? And, every generation tries to claim they’re the ‘first’ to do X or Y. And claims their predecessors were to blame? It’s just the youth of today doing what every generation has done for decades. Maybe try using the word? Once older people catch on to Woke it’ll go out of fashion faster than you can blink ?

Criticising "wokeness" isn't criticising awareness of social problems and attempting to fix them . It is expressing annoyance at the implication, by giving it a bright new incomprehensible jargon name, that this new generation are the first in history to recognise that these problems exist and try to do something about them .That is an insult to the many who have worked for decades at changing laws and public attitudes, so that we no longer see, for instance, signs in windows of B&Bs saying "No Irish, Coloureds or dogs". It is also an insult to the many more, who would never have put up those posters to start with, who were never hostile to Irish or Coloureds, but are now told when they say something like that "the night was pitch-black dark" that they are racist.

Insulting people who were never hostile to you (meaning a general "who" here, not anyone specific) to start with is not furthering the cause at all - it sets up hostility where none existed and makes it seem that what you are seeking is actually revenge and it doesn't matter that it is not against the individuals who had previously attacked you.

25Avalon It’s designed to end the conversation. Used indiscriminately to stop further discussion. In other words - a ploy.

Why is it that if someone criticises wokeness the response is not reason but accusation of racism?

"woke nonsense" = a sneer at anything that is anti racist

Have you objected to the hundreds of white actors who've played Othello

They were blacked up. If this actress had white makeup applied that would redress the balance.