Anne Boleyn

For tickingbird Thanks for the link *Alegrias1"
Queen Charlotte, wife of the English King George III (1738-1820), was directly descended from Margarita de Castro y Sousa, a black branch of the Portuguese Royal House. The riddle of Queen Charlotte’s African ancestry was solved as a result of an earlier investigation into the black magi featured in 15th century Flemish paintings. Two art historians had suggested that the black magi must have been portraits of actual contemporary people (since the artist, without seeing them, would not have been aware of the subtleties in colouring and facial bone structure of quadroons or octoroons which these figures invariably represented) Enough evidence was accumulated to propose that the models for the black magi were, in all probability, members of the Portuguese de Sousa family. (Several de Sousas had in fact traveled to the Netherlands when their cousin, the Princess Isabella went there to marry the Grand Duke, Philip the Good of Burgundy in the year 1429.)

Six different lines can be traced from English Queen Charlotte back to Margarita de Castro y Sousa, in a gene pool which because of royal inbreeding was already minuscule, thus explaining the queen’s unmistakable African appearance.

greaterdiversity.com/englands-first-black-queen-sophie-charlotte-born-1744/

She certainly didn't look like Helen Mirren.

indispensableme

MaizieD

It's Art. Art doesn't have to be representational.

Have you objected to the hundreds of white actors who've played Othello?

Then we can look forward to Kate Winslett playing Rosa Parks or Helena Baxendale playing Michelle Obama. Contrived wokeyness makes a mockery of what it pretends to support, in the same way that back in the 60s/70s anything with 'man' was banned so we all talked about Personchester, Personfield etc..

Seriously ?

Queen Charlotte wasn’t black.

As the only black Queen of England has been played by white actresses (and blondes at that) I think it is only fair that a black actress should play Anne Boleyn. www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/12/race-monarchy

However, we DO know that AB wasn’t black. I did enjoy Bridgerton with it’s mixed cast but that wasn’t factual. AB is a very well known historical figure and her red haired daughter is too.

However, for me personally, it’s an overdone topic and that’s why I don’t intend to watch.

Alegrias1

Well I can confidently say I have never said, or heard anyone else say, Personchester.

Wee bit extreme there, I think.

Whataboutery and things that didn't happen in indispensable's comment.
But it's all about accuracy isn't it!

Well I can confidently say I have never said, or heard anyone else say, Personchester.

Wee bit extreme there, I think.

MaizieD

It's Art. Art doesn't have to be representational.

Have you objected to the hundreds of white actors who've played Othello?

Then we can look forward to Kate Winslett playing Rosa Parks or Helena Baxendale playing Michelle Obama. Contrived wokeyness makes a mockery of what it pretends to support, in the same way that back in the 60s/70s anything with 'man' was banned so we all talked about Personchester, Personfield etc..

Alegrias1

20:36
You nailed it!

Vegansrock Didn’t AB have an extra finger? Should we demand that only actors with this physical characteristic be cast?
There’s calls for all gay characters to be played by gay actors so why not?

The obsession with skin colour as a measure of ‘accuracy’ is telling! Why is it telling? What does it tell you?

It tells me that people are willing to ignore other areas of 'inaccuracy' (largely things that we have no idea about, but also things like weight, height, complexion) quite happily, but are fixated on skin colour being 'right', as otherwise the whole story will be a sop to 'wokeness', children will fail exams because they will believe what they see in a tv drama *, and it won't be worth watching anyway. That does seem to point to a troubling attitude to race, IMO anyway.

* I'd put money on the fact that the most vocal about this issue will also be the ones who sneer at the idea that media studies should be taught in schools and universities, so that teenagers are capable of distinguishing between drama and textbooks.

The obsession with skin colour as a measure of ‘accuracy’ is telling! Why is it telling? What does it tell you?

When I’m watching historical dramas I like them to be reasonably accurate. I wouldn’t like it if AB was played by an Asian actress or an Inuit one.

FWIW I think Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn has been done to the death and I won’t be watching for that reason alone.

Anne’s sixth finger, like her third nipple, were rumours put about by Nicolas Sandrrs ( discussed upthread), and very unlikely to be true.

I take your point though. The obsession with skin colour as a measure of ‘accuracy’ is telling.

If you are interested in history and accuracy, always looking to clarify facts, it jars and is unrealistic to have the heroine to look nothing like she was. I think it's all about doing it because they can, so get on with it, I wouldn't be interested I would expect other things not to be accurate too. We are not exoected now to see any differences in anyone, like the King in the altogether. You can tell people what you want them to think and see all you want, but they see and think what they know.

Didn’t AB have an extra finger? Should we demand that only actors with this physical characteristic be cast?

No sorry it won’t put in what I have typed. Anyone interested google ‘Was Anne Boleyn black” and the article is on medium.com, history of Women, no Anne Boleyn was not black. Quite a well balanced article I thought.

The new series is a play, not a set text for A-Level.

That's exactly the point, Alegrias1

Following previous post should read medium.com>history-of-women>no-Anne-Boleyn
iPad playing up. I’ll test it when I have posted. Fingers crossed.

25Avalon

Interesting article on medium.com>history-of-women>no-anne-boleyn if you can find it doing the genealogy of why AB was not black but also some pertinent comments about artistic license, and white actors blacking up and how people can be misled by what they see on the TV. Don’t forget AB’s daughter was Elisabeth 1st she of the white skin and red hair. Apparently both parents have to have the gene for offspring to have red hair further proving AB was not black. Also mentions Meghan Markle. Do read it.

www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/culture/article/2016/08/23/photos-prove-not-all-redheads-are-white

Your link doesn't work Avalon25

https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202105/medium-307746-220px-juan-de-flandes-002.jpg%3C/span%3E https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202105/medium-264401-catherine.jpg%3C/span%3E https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202105/medium-658053-download.jpg%3C/span%3E

Some historical accuracy is a must.

A contemporary image of Catherine of Aragon and a couple of actresses who have played her on screen.

I suppose they each have 2 eyes. There, the resemblance ends.

The new series is a play, not a set text for A-Level.

*Some historical accuracy is a must.
If the cast were all black then it could work, but not just one or a few characters.It seems to be a case of ‘how controversial and talked about generally can we be’ from the production team.*

Why do you think this? I'm interested to know why historical accuracy about someone's appearance is 'a must', unless they have one leg, or something that impacted on their story.

I'm not arguing for arguing's sake - I just don't understand why skin colour matters in this case any more than other physical characteristics.

Interesting article on medium.com>history-of-women>no-anne-boleyn if you can find it doing the genealogy of why AB was not black but also some pertinent comments about artistic license, and white actors blacking up and how people can be misled by what they see on the TV. Don’t forget AB’s daughter was Elisabeth 1st she of the white skin and red hair. Apparently both parents have to have the gene for offspring to have red hair further proving AB was not black. Also mentions Meghan Markle. Do read it.

TV and films are a very visual medium. On radio actors are invisible, so their appearance is unknown. There is another thread deploring using actors who can't manage the accent for the casting of characters whose local links are part of the plot. Perhaps that would be the most noticeable feature on radio?

I am reading a biography on Elizabeth I by Christopher Hibbert that states that Anne Boleyn had a mixed pedigree he hints at Spanish/Morocco and that she was very dark haired with dark eyes and an olive complexion, part of the reason Henry fell for her was that she stood out against the fairer skinned and haired ladies of court. Catherine of Aragon was also Spanish therefore darker haired etc. From the trailer I have seen she still seems to play the part of the assured cunning confident femme fatale, so no change in the storyline.