Anne Boleyn

AGAA4 yes you did but it is still just skin colour. People want accuracy but the only accuracy that seems to count is colour. Why? When Ingrid Bergman played Gladys Aylward was the whole thing ruined because German Curt Jurgens played Captain Lin Nan and the Mandarin is played by British Robert Donat.

Was Lawrence of Arabia ruined for anyone because Alec Guinness played Prince Feisal or Mexican Antony Quinn played Auda Abu Tayi or Puerto Rican Jose Ferrer played the Turkish Bey? Thank heavens they found Omar Sharif to save the day.

If none of those things caused anyone concern then maybe they should wonder why. We have discussed it at home and my husband wasn't sure about it (he isn't white) but on thinking about it he agreed that if he was OK with the very Welsh Hugh Griffith playing the Sheik in Ben Hur why would a black woman playing an English Queen be an issue. Not to mention that Hugh Griffith actually got a Best Supporting Actor Oscar for the role.

Of course there are many many examples of people of colour being played by white actors but for some reason when it is the other way round it causes an issue. I do remember Rita Moreno complaining about Natalie Wood getting the part of a Puerto Rican although she didn't seem as worried about George Chakiris playing a Puerto Rican, like Natalie Wood he was the child of immigrants but not from Puerto Rico.

Namsnanny

theworriedwell

I don't remember any fuss when a French Canadian actress (Geneviève Bujold) played Anne Boleyn in Anne of a Thousand Days. She even won a award for it, how authentic was that?

But Anne Boleyn lived many years in France. She was fluent in the language and fashion of the court. Being, as she was a favourite of the Queen.
So there was at least some justification.

Justification for her French accent.

You've mentioned a couple of times that no one had replied theworriedwell.

Namsnanny

Namsnanny

theworriedwell

I don't remember any fuss when a French Canadian actress (Geneviève Bujold) played Anne Boleyn in Anne of a Thousand Days. She even won a award for it, how authentic was that?

But Anne Boleyn lived many years in France. She was fluent in the language and fashion of the court. Being, as she was a favourite of the Queen.
So there was at least some justification.

Justification for her French accent.

You've mentioned a couple of times that no one had replied theworriedwell.

Thanks Namsnanny I had missed that. I'm not sure her French accent covers it, She was French Canadian and with French Canadian's in the family they wouldn't say it is a French accent. speaking French yes bit like Americans speak English but the accent is different. French Canadian accents do get picked up by French people, at least they have been with my relatives. So I don't think a French Canadian playing Anne Boleyn is accurate or authentic just because they both spoke/speak French, I'm sure there are black actresses who speak French if that qualifies them.

I've just thought of a film with a non white actor playing a white prince so the closest equivalent I could think of.

Omar Sharif playing the Austrian Prince Rudolph in Meyerling. I remember seeing it when it came out, must have been late 60s. Don't remember anyone being worried about an Egyptian playing an Austrian Prince. I wonder why that didn't cause issues, maybe because Prince Rudolph wasn't British or maybe because he isn't so dark.

theworriedwell - you've mentioned Hugh Griffith playing the Sheikh in Ben Hur, Natalie Wood and George Chakiris in West Side Story as examples of white people playing non-white parts. But these are from the 1950s! I think we've moved on since then. And at least they tried to make the actor look the right ethnicity, they were all made up to darken their skin.

theworriedwell your posts are brilliant. Thank you

As an aside, I watched a bit of West Side Story a couple of days ago. The amount of greasy orange foundation that the blokes were wearing was quite alarming.

theworriedwell People want accuracy but the only accuracy that seems to count is colour. Why? When Ingrid Bergman played Gladys Aylward was the whole thing ruined because German Curt Jurgens played Captain Lin Nan and the Mandarin is played by British Robert Donat.
Colour is not the only accuracy that counts! Anne Boleyn should not be played by a short obese white woman of the wrong age with blonde curly hair. The whole package counts, not just colour. There have been many examples of bad casting in the past, and now we have this one, a completely different race!
In old movies white people have often played other races. Maybe that was wrong, but at least they tried to make them look authentic. Robert Donat was made up to look Chinese, so was Christopher Lee as Fu Manchu.
If you believe they were wrong to do that then why are you now saying this is right? It's a contradiction.

Chestnut

theworriedwell - you've mentioned Hugh Griffith playing the Sheikh in Ben Hur, Natalie Wood and George Chakiris in West Side Story as examples of white people playing non-white parts. But these are from the 1950s! I think we've moved on since then. And at least they tried to make the actor look the right ethnicity, they were all made up to darken their skin.

Oh Boy! Blacking up approved of! Whatever next?
Should they then have painted the black actress white? Would that have made it OK for you?

The examples given show how difficult historically it was for actors who weren't white to get roles in productions. It still is difficult. I hope at some point we canreach a stage where the quality of acting is what counts and not the colour of the skin. We seem to have managed this to some extent with male/female roles. But there is still a long way to go.

trisher Oh Boy! Blacking up approved of! Whatever next? Should they then have painted the black actress white? Would that have made it OK for you?
Did I say I approved? I only approve of getting accuracy in the casting of real historical figures, and that is what they were attempting to do. It was a long time ago, they got it wrong, does that mean we should still get the casting wrong?

Anne Boleyn should not be played by a short obese white woman of the wrong age with blonde curly hair.

So if there are no slender dark haired women good enough to play the part, should they just not bother making the film?

Discriminatory to short people, people who are not "standard" sizes and blondes now. What next?

trisher I hope at some point we can reach a stage where the quality of acting is what counts and not the colour of the skin.
This can never apply for historical people who we know about. Would you be happy with Winston Churchill or Princess Diana portrayed by black actors or Michelle Obama and Tina Tuner portrayed by white actors? It's complete nonsense.
We should show people the respect of portraying them as accurately as possible, whether black or white, whatever period they lived in.

Alegrias1 It is not being discriminatory to try and portray a historical character as accurately as possible! Show some respect.

Really? You're telling me to show some respect?

Okey dokey....

Respect for what Chestnut?
Why do you think it disrespectful to have an actor in a role who looks differently to the real person?
I'm not arguing - it's a genuine question

Why not? Chestnut It might be interesting in years to come to see a woman play Churchill, or Idris Elba. These are plays you know they are not re-enactments. or faithful representations. In Shakespeare's day men always played the women. Were his witches less witch-like because of that? Times change and art develops and grows.

If we are going to enter fantasyland then why not get Bart Simpson to play Churchill?

Fiona Shaw as Richard II.

He was a real man, she's a woman.

Honestly, its acting...

Alegrias1

Fiona Shaw as Richard II.

He was a real man, she's a woman.

Honestly, its acting...

It was also acting in old movies when people of a different race were made up to appear like the person they were portraying. That included eye make up for Chinese roles (Christopher Lee) and skin darkening for various other roles. But doing that is now racist apparently. But as you say....... it's acting. As far as I know, facial make up has long been used in acting and it was never considered racist to try and portray someone of a different race.

trisher In Shakespeare's day men always played the women. Were his witches less witch-like because of that? Times change and art develops and grows.
A contradiction in this statement. I agree times change so why are you harping back to Shakespeare's day as an example of how it should be done?

The use of the word "apparently" says a lot, Chestnut.

Not racist at all, of course not.

Alegrias1

The use of the word "apparently" says a lot, Chestnut.

Not racist at all, of course not.

What nonsense. It's all acting as Alegrias1 said. Are you going to accuse all actors who have ever worn make-up of racism? You must be getting desperate to prove your point.

And you are squirming. And using ad absurdam arguments.

Sorry as you said I meant.
Can you explain that seemingly totally irrelevant picture you've posted?

Alegrias1

And you are squirming. And using ad absurdam arguments.

I'm not squirming at all. ?
I stand firmly by my belief that ALL historical characters should be portrayed as accurately as possible in their appearance, whether black or white.
Stop bringing in racism, it smacks of desperation.

White man, blacked up, to show how the KKK dealt with people they thought had broken the rules.

Its from Birth of a Nation.

The fact that you think its irrelevant is quite telling.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation