Three Girls

What a shame she was reduced to having to be on shows like that rather than her real job!

Did anyone see Sarah ( the sexual health worker) on First Dates, she was really lovely. Unfortunately her and her date didn't have a 'spark'. What a shame.

iam no need to apologise (but thank you) - your post did not seem preachy to me.

That is correct MiceElf, what a pity no one from the jury reported that to the Judge.
Someone close to me had the misfortune of being called to jury service on two rape trials. One failed because of a "technicality". The other seems to have been similar to the experience Azie09 had. No one looked at a Facebook page but the rape was perpetrated by an ex boyfriend. The jury foreman took a bigoted misogynist approach to the evidence, the women on the jury followed his lead. The verdict was 10 = 2 with my friend and a female jury member amongst the two who believed the allegations made.
Granny knot, I'm sorry if my post seemed preachy. I spent almost 40 years working in this kind of area and have more experience than I'd have expected, or wanted, or vulnerable children being further hurt by judicial processes (or lack of prosecution)

If a member of the jury looked at a witness's FB page that would make the entire trial invalid and there should have been a retrial.
What a pity you didn't know this and report him to the judge.

A couple of years ago I was on a jury which heard a case where a young man was charged with grooming and rape. He was a young man from a rich and notable family, she a young woman in foster care who hung out with other youngsters in care outside of the flats where the young man lived. He naively I think let the kids in for drinks and to play on his computer and she in particular began to spend more and more time in his flat and inevitably in his bed. She was obviously immature and vulnerable and inarticulate when giving evidence.

The family engaged a hot shot London lawyer for the defence, the judge slapped him down at every chance. What shocked me especially was the jury room - 8 men, 4 women, immediately the men began to say she was asking for it and two of the women agreed. Myself and another woman tried to argue but we were ridiculed and one of the men had looked at the girl's Facebook page and so knew 'she was fine now'! We gave in, the judge looked annoyed at our 20 minute deliberation and not guilty verdict and the man walked out scot free.

The attitude of many men towards girls needs thinking about and the way our legal system favours those with money and an education. I always wonder how men can use women in this way, especially if they are very young and possibly crying, it's beyond perverted.

I wonder how they are these days. How can people recover from this start to ? Those poor girls.

I think Amber was probably more typical than Holly of the girls who were involved. Holly was obviously exceptionally bright (she managed to keep up her school work and passed her exams in spite of the lifestyle she led). Amber was more emotional and the cross examination by all the barristers involved would probably have made her very angry and upset. I was amazed at how well Holly coped. It is dreadful that not only are these girls abused by the men involved but the criminal justice system then subjects them to such rigorous questioning. I thought the portrayal of how the questioning brought back Holly's experiences and disturbed her even more was brilliant. Unfortunately there are probably many other instances where there isn't a Holly involved and more girls like Amber. Girls who can be bullied and manipulated to involve other girls the men want.

Thank you iam. I didn't realise that Amber had learning difficulties too, she came across as quite sharp in the film. I guess I'm a bit naive.

Thank you for the explanation.

There is an interview on line, between a reporter from the Manchester Evening News Maggie Oliver, the detective portrayed in the drama. I was impressed by her, she described the efforts she made to get CSE properly investigated and perpetrators charged with rape, rather than "sexual activity with a child". She says she believed in the system but now feels she was naive. She followed all the correct procedures because she fully understood them. The suggestion from the chair of Rochdale's safeguarding board was that Sara R and her team hadn't followed 'correct procedure' to escalate their concerns. It's dreadful to see good workers like Maggie and Sara forced to leave the work they love and are so good at because they challenge the status quo. The accusation of being emotionally involved is such an easy one to make and such a derogatory way to speak of professionals who have learned the hard way to manage their own emotions at work.

Granny knot - children who have been as neglected and exploited as Ruby and Amber often behave inconsistently. Amber did speak out, she detailed her experiences to Maggie Oliver but because she was critical of Holly in that first video interview, it was decided not to use the interview as evidence against the abusers. There were 9 barristers involved, all attempting to discredit the child witnesses. We say what happened with Ruby, she agreed when leading questions like "he was your boyfriend, you said you had nice sex with him" were put to her. She had learning difficulties, the barrister no doubt had a first from Oxbridge.
Amber also had learning difficulties and that made it easier for the abusers to manipulate and abuse her. These groups of abusers usually understand the criminal justice system and their own "rights" only too well. They would have known that the girls, especially Amber, would be viewed as unreliable witnesses and done all they could to muddy the waters to their own ends.

www.change.org/p/3-girls-sexual-health-worker-sara-rowbotham-to-be-recognised-for-her-services

I've finished watching this series. Harrowing indeed. I'm finding it difficult to get my head around Amber. Holly spoke out. Amber didn't, she became a ringleader and involved other girls, including her young sister. She didn't protect Ruby, you'd think she would have kept her out of it. I understand that she thought Tariq was her boyfriend, and that she was a victim too and had been groomed into that role, but still. I'd genuinely appreciate it if those who understands better than me could explain her behaviour.

The other thought I had was that the police in a sense then also subsequently "groomed" Amber to build trust, albeit for a different reason.

It is horrifying that it is still going on. What a God awful mess.

He is currently challenging plans to deport him on release. I'd be relieved to see him returned to Pakistan. Will this mean his British citizenship,is revoked. I should google before thinking aloud .

I thought it ironic that Shabir Ahmed ( known as 'daddy') took his case to ECHR on the grounds that he was convicted by 11 white jurors.
Thankfully those judges saw the irony, too, considering the heinous crimes he committed.

It was harrowing and represented the lives of the girls accurately. I hope that it will discourage the many people who accuse girls like the ones portrayed in the drama, of being responsible for their own abuse. It's good to see that none of the posters on this thread are questioning that these girls were repeatedly and horrifically abused.

This was harrowing. Those poor girls. Sarah, was treated unfairly being dismissed. Heads have to come out of the sand, you cannot let these things go unnoticed for fear of playing the racial card. I see the ring leader Shamir Ahmed is appealing against deportation, at the tax payers expense of course. His comments in court told the world exactly what he thought of this country,especially the girls and women, and yet he wants to stay, I wonder why.

I'm not defending poor practice by the police or children's services. The reality is at young women/girls are given a hellish time as witnesses. Their personal and family lives, use of substances or referral to mental health services will be used in an attempt to dis refit their testimony. I've always been incensed to see barristers who have a first from Oxbridge tripping up a 14 year old who has learning difficulties, as was shown in this drama.

Prosecutions are rare, acquittals not so rare.

I Completely agree with you harri

The prosecutions are still going on and I believe one of the perpetrators is actually in court today .

I think the investigation did not go far enough, social services and the police should have been prosecuted for their failure to protect those young girls. The one person who tried her best to help the girls was got rid of.
The TV series was well made and the acting superb. The authorities that allowed this abuse to continue should have been brought to account.

Such a powerful and moving drama.

Well done all involved in showing up the failings in our systems

I was also saddened (but not surprised) that Sarah was made redundant the following year. What the police and social services hate is to have the finger pointed at them and have their massive failings hung out in public for all to see. Sarah was a whistleblower and they would have hated that. How shocking to see all of the similar cases in all the other areas flashing into the screen at the end.

I was disgusted that poor Amber was named as one of the perpetrators even though they knew she was a vulnerable child herself and then for SS to threaten to take her baby away was nothing short of scandalous. Poor kids. I wonder where they are now?

A harrowing but excellently done series. Those poor girls having to be interrogated as they were in court after all they had been through. The services which should have protected them in the first place should hang their heads in shame.
I was shocked also to learn that Sarah the sexual health worker was made redundant the following year. It seems whistleblowers are still not protected.

I've just finished watching it and thought it as supremely well done - brilliant acting. I agree with Iam - the girls were not failed because of a fear of being thought racist but because they were the 'wrong sort of girl'.

I've found it harrowing, despite the content being familiar to me. It's true that perpetrators of child sexual abuse and exploitation come from every race and creed. My experience was not that agencies feared being accused of racism, more that the nonsensical notion that 11 and 13 year old girls (and boys) were making "lifestyle choices" when they "chose" to return to abusive men.
The crimes committed by Asian gangs were horrific, they targeted vulnerable white teenagers. Gangs of white/black/whatever men do the same, occasionally with the support of women.

Harrowing viewing, brilliant acting by the young people particularly but also by the rest of the cast.

As Maggie Oliver (the policewoman who left) has said recently in our local press - it's still going on.

Exactly MOnica.