Wolf Hall

I can't bear Wolf Hall - book or TV. I just don't believe in either Mantel's or Rylance's Cromwell. I certainly don't believe all the women would be fawning over him. And will someone please buy some combs for the women? More's daughter Meg had a most unlikely messy short haircut.

Did anyone watch the Melvyn Bragg programme about Tindall that was on before Wolf Hall? I only caught the end of it but it was very relevant and interesting.

I guess that's just to show how women are attracted to powerful men, and perhaps explains why they are drawn to positions of power that could potentially end up being beheaded. Then again, it could just be to 'sex it up' for the American market.

I think it's beautifully done and very relaxing to watch, but I'm not sure that I like all the women fawning over Thomas!

It is really good isn't it. I feel quite relaxed after watching it, it goes at such a leisurely pace, but full of intrigue, terrible time to live in though, would never know who your friends were!

I think it gets even better as it goes on- I think it is beautifully done. I have read the books which probably helps.

tegan it may well have been a tapestry (low lighting and old eyes)...

I thought it was a tapestry of Henrys marriage to his first wife that Henry was pleased to get rid of [but the phone rang as I was watching it so I could be wrong ]. Need to watch it again.

Okay, thanks! I thought it had some deeper meaning. So it it just as if I go round your house and say "Ooh, I rather like that painting" - and then you give it to me to show that we are friends

merlot I have

I can't get used to a sexy Cromwell.

Just shows how friendly the king feels towards him. At the moment.

Can anyone please explain the significance of the painting that the King had delivered to Cromwell's house? I know Cromwell had admired it and said that the woman reminded of him of someone he knew in Antwerp ...

Flipping iPad
" Septem sacramentorum" etc

Oh and breaking from Rome was an extremely BIG deal! people believed implicitly in their immortal souls and the power of the Church was all pervasive. Henry was himself a deeply devout and spiritual man and was given the title Defender of the Faith by Pope Leo X in 1521 as a "reward" for a pamphlet he wrote against Martin Luther.("Assertio septem adversus Martinum Lutherum")
And he was besotted with Anne Boleyn-fact, not Hollywood fiction!

I don't know how you can dismiss this as a "completely new take on an old subject" sarahc!! It is an outstanding dramatisation of a Booker prize winning novel as were the recent RSC productions of Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies.
And at the risk of sounding ungrateful I find your potted history lesson on the Tudors and that period e.g. male supremacy a bit patronising. Even those of us who may not be historians do know a bit about the Tudor era!!

I can't help thinking there must be another reason. We know she held out on him because she wanted to be married and to be queen but he doesn't seem the type to hanker after anyone for so long, not when he had the pick of all the other attractive and available women at court.

Deedaa I think that is right. I think she would not succumb to him like all the others and held out on him. Psychological tactics.

I don't think Henry was in love with Anne as we would understand it today. I think it's pretty clear that he was obsessed with her. He pursued her relentlessly for years. Whether Anne became dangerously complacent once they were married or whether Henry became tired of his prize as soon as he'd won her we shall probably never know.

I don't think Henry was in love with Ann Boleyn either, sarahc, but how else do you explain her hold over him? Yes, he was desperate for an heir but there were plenty of other women who would have given him one (if you see what I mean!) Why did it have to be her?

History tells us that Henry Percy was never a very strong character. He was the heir, but he was a scholar, sickly, and didn't have the warrior characteristics of his two brothers, which didn't endear him to his father. He was hopelessly in love with Ann Boleyn, before she came to Henry's notice, and she with him, so it is said, although she probably fancied being the Countess of Northumberland.(If she had been, she would have kept her head but been poor as the Percy's had no money. May not have suited her!) Wolsey put an end to the liaison, but Henry never got over it. He entered, against his will, into a very unhappy marriage with the Earl of Shrewsburys daughter but they couldn't stand the sight of each other and spent most of their time apart. To add insult to injury, I believe he had to sit in judgement of her at her trial.

Thank you for the history lesson Sarah!

It's actually a fictionalised account of Thomas Cromwell.

Well, that's us told!

Its a completely new take on an old subject - Henry VIII. It seems to keep the pace and action interesting while not the shock a minute hollywood pace of alot of films. This gives it a more realistic everyday feel, like everyday reality, even for kings.

Mark Rylance as Cromwell completely conveys - the quiet man perfectly enacting his supreme male power, as was common during those times for all men. (husbands were expected to beat their wives).

I do hope we dont have any of the normal romantic rubbish about Henry being inlove with Ann Boleyn which is why he broke from Rome. Henry desperately needed a son an heir - end of. Breaking from the catholics wasn't such a big deal as they were associated with the powerful established aristocracy that he didn't like and had alot of money in the church holdings. Spirituality and love were never factors in any of it.

Well, I will say he is bringing something new to the character of Thomas Cromwell who I have always understood was an evil, devious, manipulative character. And quite large with double chins.

I agree, Mark Rylance is a brilliant Cromwell, and so sexy without even trying! Mary Boleyn is excellent, too. She comes across as a desperate woman barely holding on to her sanity. They must all have been terrified of being beheaded. What did you think of Harry Percy? Mad, or what?