I am incandescant with rage!

I lived in Bulgaria for 5 years. I went there 2 years before they went into the EU. So I do have quite a lot of experience of living with and employing Roma.
I also have a lot of experience of Romania as I lived about one hour from the border and we travelled there a lot.
I have employed the best and the worst of these people. You will never understand them.
You can't imagine the poverty that some of them live in. Also, the attitude of their own countrymen towards them is appalling. I have seen this many times.
They don't have a hope in hell of getting out of this. Unless you are lucky and someone, as a friend of mine did, gives you a chance.
You have no idea how rural these two countries are. So even if you did get a chance of a job, you have no way of getting there.
Please don't think that I am defending what some of these people are doing.
But, hand on heart, if I lived as some are and I heard that there was a country that would give me and my children a home, food, education, medicine: would I do any different.
Someone mentioned the pick pocketing. Every word is true. It only happened to me twice, before I wished up.

We have open borders because we are in the EU, only way to change this is to leave the EU. DC will not be able to change this, although he may get some token powers back. With regard to benefits how can it be right that you can claim family allowance for children who don't live with their parent in the UK. There are Romanians sleeping rough near Park Lane in London its a disgrace.

One of the men on last night's programme stated quite cheerfully that if he couldn't earn 40K on benefits he'd steal the money and quite happy to pick pockets.

Bit more than a grain, I'd say.

Why must there be, Ana?
Or is it chaff?

And then of course there are all those reports about Romanian gangs of pickpockets and other organised crime rackets - probably grossly exaggerated, but there must be a grain or two of truth there.

The truth probably lies somewhere between the Channel 5 programme and the BBC1 programme when linked to. The first prog seeking out worst cases, and the second perhaps whitewashing the situation a bit.

Those two in the picture on the Telegraph link have got their exclusive retreats to hurry back to.

Do you think the 'clan masters' will be on their backs forever?

I was amazed how much they earned going round in a van nicking collecting scrap metal even after they'd paid the clan master.

Yes. You are right merlot. Durrr!

I suppose you could say they are seeking refuge from poverty?

On a very different note, but again about refugees, isn't it The Glasgow Girls tonight? A different side to this perhaps.

It's not refugees per se that are the issue it's all people who just want to take, take from the system.

I thought they were economic migrants.

They are what they call "economic refugees". Not the same thing at all.

Are they refugees?

Hoping to watch that programme.
But what worries me more about the Channel 5 programme is that it could incite violence against the Romanian refugees. They don't seem to be intrinsically bad people, it's the system that's at fault and they could well be the victims.

A programme tonight that might help to bring some balance to discussions.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/10946886/Can-Nick-Hewer-and-Margaret-Mountford-change-views-on-immigration.html

Not good enough IMO.

Perhaps we should bombard them all with messages like The Borg [ Star Trek] 'Resistance is useless! You will be assimilated!'

We haven't managed to assimilate our own gypsies let alone from other countries.

That's another good reason to leave the EU.

We see it all the time round here, E.European immigrants, no job, yet plenty of cash to spend on booze and cigarettes, always full trolleys at the supermarket, and cards to use public phone boxes, it`s just not fair, when people who have worked all their lives, and paid all their dues, have to scrimp and scrape all the time.

Well, we have to keep badgering away. And you can rely on DC to do it.

(this is not a party political broadcast)

I just think he's got the right idea. Would any of the others be brave enough to take the stand he did? Can't have been easy.

Yes, and now he's got the job, we can expect much more of the same...

Isn't this part of the reason why Cameron didn't want Juncker to be the next President of the EU? Because he (Juncker) wants even more power for the EU laws, including the right of free movement of people from member states within the EU?

This case illustrates the dissatisfaction that some of us have with the wholesale movement of EU citizens. Clearly there is a great disparity in the standard of living between western Europe and some of the former communist bloc who still haven't fully emerged from the poor conditions that prevailed before they were liberated. Coupled with the fact that parts of Eastern Europe have never really assimilated their Roma population, in spite of the fact that they have been there for centuries. There is an overt racism in parts of Eastern Europe and being part of the European Union doesn't appear to have alleviated that in any way. As you say Nonnie who can blame them, There was a complicity in the collusion that took place in allowing the insolvent and corrupt counties in, before they were ready. There just seems to be a malaise in the EU that we are expected to accept, many of us feel that the issues that adversely affect us in this country won't be changed, for all David Cameron's bluster.

I'm glad Phoenix brought the subject up, why should a person in her position who has contributed all their life through tax and NI be made to jump through hoops, when a whole raft of benefits can be granted to EU citizens who don't even intend to work here.

The focus should be on the 'Clanmasters' They are the ones organising the transport/accommodation/help with claiming the maximum amount of benefits etc., and then they take a substantial cut. Are they paying tax on this no doubt sizeable income?

I noticed the couple who came here with the intention of working for a better life had to go back to Romania because they couldn't find work. They obviously didn't belong to a clan!!!

I agree with you but would add that I don't blame them for coming here and taking advantage when you see how little they had at home. Why wouldn't they when it is so blatantly offered?

I thought all countries wanting to join the EU had to show that they were solvent and suitable? It must have been clear that this would happen as soon as they were admitted.