The Choir

I agree Specky that competition in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is not always appropriate. Mastermind, University Challenge, Only Connect etc. - fun and interesting.

Malone's programmes used to be about encouraging people to the knowledge that singing is for everyone. So many have been told at school that they cannot sing, or that it is not cool, and they finish up missing out.

Already several people have posted on this thread to say they cannot sing - what do they mean by that? That they cannot sing to performance standard, or some other standard that they have set for themselves. Go to Africa - people just sing for the joy of it and do not worry about whether they are "good at it." They just throw themselves into all that singing brings - better health, better mood, the joy of a joint undertaking with others.

Malone's first programmes brought all of that and the competition was not needed. There is a strong enough pressure telling people that they cannot sing without introducing an element of "failure."

The way TV directors milk the competitive element in programmes is often distasteful and degrading, exploiting the sad desire of the vulnerable to be in TV at all costs with the hope of becoming a "celeb."

Good post specki - primary schools refusing to do any competitive sport is an example of silliness.
I personally would prefer not to belong to a choir that is part of a competitive framework because I just want to have an enjoyable sing, not spend many many hours perfecting one or two songs.

But isn't there a middle way. With all that competition in life now, people need how to motivate themselves for joy & common purpose. I'm not against competition but it can either be the prime reason or a subordinate one where it can improve performance. I used to sing in a choir in Bath for fun & performance & at a high standard. Every year we entered one or two competitions and had great fun, sometimes winning but mainly they stopped us being complacent & we got new ideas from others.
Re class: The founders of this and many other choirs were not stereotypical middle-class choirs. Their founder & half the members lived on council estates with jobs as sales assistants etc. The others were every other class, education & job & the woman who stood next to me is a multi-millionaire inventor's wife (you probably have an invention in your home). Our repertoire included Britten, Bach, Mozart etc. as well as Beach Boys & Beatles & nothing had to be dumbed down. So many working class people in the past learnt their music in Chapel & Church, colliery & factory.

mishap asked what we meant by not being able to sing. Just that I'm afraid mishap, I've tried (seem to remember that I wasn't too bad at school), but now I can't hold a note, keep changing octaves as I don't know whether to go high or lower, it's flat - it's really horrible! Even my DC used to ask me to stop when I tried to sing to them

I've considered lessons but feel too embarrassed to try now

I watched the programme last night on BBC4 (Sacred Music
The Story of Allegri's Miserere) that a previous poster mentioned and thought it was fabulous

Truly yogagran people come to my choir and say exactly what you are saying and then get carried along with it all, and before you know it - bingo, they are singing!! There is nothing like a group of others around you to help guide you to the right notes.

I suppose with competition it does sharpen performance. Brass Bands and Male voice choirs seem to go in for this in a big way. Its not difficult these days (unless you live in the sticks) to find a choir that will suit whatever stuff you want to do.

I used to be in a local choir which once a year, in September, joins up with choirs from all round the UK to "Sing for Water" at the Thames Festival, raising money for Water Aid. As the last year or so has been quite busy for me, I haven't been going but it truly was a lovely experience to sing with so many other choirs.

There is something really uplifting about singing in a choir.

Interesting debate this.

Regarding not being able to sing..there is a book/cd called 'Singing for Dummies' which I bought years ago. It is a mix of clever technical instruction and sound advice with useful voice training exercises on the cd where you can mimic the two singers on the disk. I use it in the car on the way to rehearsals/concerts, mainly to warm up my vocal chords which now that I am ageing, need plenty of warming up! On that subject I watched Celine Dion talking to Jonathon Ross last night and showing him an incredible voice warm up technique. So if someone with a voice range like Celine Dion needs to warm up - that makes me feel better!

I sing soprano (the easiest voice because we usually have the melody) in a choir but am unable to pitch by sight unless I have guidance - then I'm ok. I learn each piece off by heart but still get told off by my betters because my enthusiasm sometimes makes me forget note values. It is a truly rewarding activity if you can overcome your fears.

I wish... I would love to sing in a big choir, belting out Belshazzar's Feast. But my vocal chords have been damaged by stomach acid and although I can reach some very high and very low notes, my middle range is creaky to put it mildly. Not that I was ever a great singer - my sister used to nudge me in the ribs at church when we were teenagers.

My OH has PD and his voice is very quiet and he finds it harder to control - but he sings with my choir and enjoys himself.

I always tell people to sing the bits they can manage and leave the other bits to someone else - we have not yet been faced by a deafening silence! The important thing is the being a part of it and having some fun!

So glad I found the U3A singing group here. I feel far more confident about opening my mouth!
And there is a prospect of a folk song group too.
I protested in the first group about singing too much Rodgers and Hammerstein.....but now we are into C......s songs!

Just come across a copy of today's Sunday telegraph magazine in which Michael Deacon reviews The Choir. This is part of what he says:

"In each of the original 4 series of The Choir, Gareth Malone taught choral singing to a single group or community (an all-boys school or the wives of British servicemen). In Sing While You Work, he sets up choirs at various workplaces and then pits them against each other. Personally I preferred the first version. In spirit it felt so unlike other TV talent shows; above all else it was about using music to unite a community, give shyer members self-confidence, get them working together to achieve something they all felt proud of. And have a lot of fun too. It was uplifting."

He says more, but that is the gist of it - and hear hear say I!

Oh yes - and he does mention the beard but confines his comments to how it is a different colour from his head hair - he desists from further speculation!

Obviously got a purer mind than some...

We liked Birmingham council didn't we. Very sympathetic portrayal.
Bit of a better choice of singers than in P and O as well.
If you want to listen to an uplifting bit of singing... I don't usually post video links but...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=czGABOkLGqU

Oh, yes. I enjoyed that!

Aren't the chaps fantastic?

A real morale booster..nearly squeezed a tear!

Oh dear! Am I the only one to find this series - dare I say it - b-o-r-i-n-g enough to switch off

You are not alone goldengirl.

AND Gareth patronising , insincere AND uninspiring !
hey ho !

As someone who lives abroad I like to catch up on what people are doing in the UK. their jobs and responsibilities. I liked looking at Birmingham City Council and the city - a city I haven't visited for over 25 years. Gareth can listen to people and I like that and I think he does get the best out of his singers.

There was a very much less than favourable article in the TV section of todays Telegraph, practically stating that GM hardly does a thing this time round.

Will see if I can find a link.....

Gareth does seem less than enthusiastic this time. The whole format is becoming too predictable IMO. I do not feel as engaged as I did with this series before.

Useless DT on line! Maybe someone with more patience can find it, it was written by Sameer Rahim, in the "last night on television" column