Scruffy?

Yesjaneainsworth if a lady attended an interview wearing the veil, we would have to reiterate the policy before the interview started. They were then asked if they would remove the veil for work. If they said no the interview was terminated.

I think my daughter gets called Madam at the school in Cheltenham that she teaches at.( not the ladies college)

That is interesting Joelsnan, that face veils were not permitted.

Anno at least your DS called the HT 'sir'
The teachers at my school nearly all wore academic gowns. I think in a way it reinforced the idea that education is to be valued, and something to strive for.
One of the exceptions was a French teacher called Mrs Kenyon who came to the school when I was in 3rd form.
She wore stylish, edgy clothes, like A line skirts, which were very new then, and managed to look sexy but not sleazy, in a Jane Birkin sort of way.
I used to positively look forward to French, just to see what she had on.
The boys competed for the privilege of carrying her books and holding doors open for her

My DIL who is a deputy head teacher , ALWAYS looks very smartly turned out . how can they tell pupils to look tidy if they themselves look untidy .

Having worked in the Education sector in the Middle East. A very prescriptive dress code is in place for all staff which involves smart western office wear for both male and females (unless local, then it is Abaya and Dishdasha). Personal hygiene including hair and no beard(for men) is mentioned along with strength of perfume/aftershave and amount of visible jewellery etc. Facial veils are not permitted in most schools. The code is strictly enforced and disciplinary action taken for those who try to flaunt the code.

I know that standards of dress for teachers in state schools have been slipping allowed to relax, from what I have seen of them. Stubble [rather than clean shaven or bearded] no ties and so on for men [whilst the pupils often do have ties and uniforms] and low cut tops and short skirts/high heels sometimes even for the women.Common sense should tell women [and men] how to dress around boys and girls, if you want their respect, which is essential for teaching [otherwise classes are just a riot.]We need not be Victorian about this, and schools do differ [plus you always expect the art dept. to be bohemian.]

In the 6th form at my sons' school, pupils were allowed to wear their own clothes - but not jeans. DS2 was - and still is - almost incapable of looking anything but scruffy and one day the head teacher suggested that he could make more effort. DS looked at the HT, who usually went around in a rather nondescript cardigan, and countered with, 'What about you, then, sir?' My point being that if the staff look scruffy, how can you expect decent standards from the pupils? However, I would like to know what OFSTED consider to be appropriate dress. When I was a young teacher we still wore academic gowns.

Having fallen down a flight of stairs at work, sustaining a very nasty fracture, when I returned to my teaching job I had to wear a large and supportive boot for some months so I modified my working wardrobe. I took to wearing a trouser suit with a T shirt underneath and I was so comfortable that I made this my uniform until I retired. In a hot computer room I could take off the jacket and be cool, and then just slip it on for a meeting or to see parents and so on. I had 5 trouser suits and numerous T shirts and just used to bung the whole lot in the washing machine at the weekend. Students obviously were accustomed to seeing me in this garb, so that when I turned up in jeans for a field trip, they couldn't believe their eyes.

I think that in schools where the students have to wear a uniform, and be neat and tidy, the teachers have a responsibility to lead by example.

I am probably getting old but I have to say that school staff should set reasonable standards for tidiness and appropriate dress. It does make it clear to the pupils that when they go out to work in whatever sort of job they choose they need to have some idea of what is expected in a workplace and that a corporate image is very important to any business.

It's about good manners to customers etc and giving the impression that you know what you are doing and that you have not just crawled out of bed and thrown your jogging clothes on.

I would not be happy with any shop assistant or doctor who looked as if they CBA to make themselves neat and tidy, it would make me think they would not be bothered to do their job properly either.

I often slob about the house in jogging bottoms and a scruffy jumper but I would not venture to the shops dressed in them.
I find it too easy to let standards slip as it is.

Shop assistants chewing gum puts me right off, but that's a particular hangup of mine.

I agree that dress code should be set by governors and enforced by the management team of the school. Bloody ridiculous if ofsted get involved in this stuff - it is outside their remit.
I also agree that women teachers should be made aware that overtly sexy clothing is inappropriate in a mixed school.
In the school where I was governor the sixth form were self policing in their clothing - the code was smart casual and I never saw a sixth former that was either provocatively dressed or scruffy!
IMO there is no virtue in making teachers wear formal clothing.
When i taught i was very glad that science teachers can wear a white coat at all times over their clothes.

I can look smart in clothes that would look scruffy on someone else. And I frequently see people who presumably think they are dressed smartly (e.g. because wearing a tailored jacket) but they don't look smart to me because of the way they carry themselves and their clothes.

I agree with the OP: Ofsted needs to do its job and stop fussing about "workwear".

I like that advice about "anything so long as pupils can't see up it, down it or through it."

The schools I have worked in all had a dress code with one headteacher in particular rigorously enforcing it (she once sent a new classroom assistant home to change). Deeda I remember my own (male) teachers saying the same thing.

When my DiL started her first teaching job she asked what was appropriate work wear. " Anything, as long as the children can't see up it, down it, or through it" came the reply.

At my youngest Ds's school ~The Red Balloon Learner Centre the teachers and pupils all had stocking or bare feet. Shoes were left at the kitchen door. I suppose it was the Director's home so 12 pair of muddy shoes plus the teachers' shoes would have been a bit too much to contend with.

When my two were at school the Music master was as unconventional as you might expect but always scrubbed up and wore a suit at school. I remember him giving my son a telling off for his slapdash approach to school and saying "If I have to get up and shave and put on a suit and tie to come to school - you can damn well make an effort too"
My Art teacher at my grammar school was very colourful and bohemian, but never scruffy. There is a difference between interesting and slovenly.

When I was first teaching I wanted to wear trousers (reception class) but had to convince the head I would wear a smart suit and not jeans. She was very hard to please but I was always well turned out and at last persuaded her it was a good idea. Hard to believe that trousers were not readily acceptable in 1973.

Hugely amused by the introduction of a "dress code" at my old school after (I hasten to add) I had retired. I understand it was aimed at a few shall we say well-endowed young female members of staff who tended to let it "--just about-- all hang out" and wore very short skirts while not necessarily having the best legs. Having heard some of the comments from Y11 and Sixth form boys while I was there , they did a pretty good job in the distraction line The (new) Head - a woman - was renowned for looking an absolute fright herself - trying to look young and trendy and somehow managing to turn that into ill-fitting and frumpy. I would still like to know how she enforced it!
I took a pride in looking, dare I say it workmanlike, while I was a teacher (usually smart trousers and a jacket - not a suit) but that did not necessarily mean "office dress"and the kids could be extremely observant.
So smart or casual , I think ideally professionals should look the part and personally think "scruffy" is not acceptable but I would stress that just wearing a suit does not preclude looking scruffy!!

It seems the 'scruffy' ones were the dance, drama and creative arts staff who were wearing 'workwear'.

I don't think the scruffiness or otherwise of the teachers is a matter for Ofsted - they should concentrate on educational standards.
Dress code for teachers, and pupils, should be a matter for the school itself. The school my DD works at requires smart office wear.

Personally I would initially have less confidence in any professional, doctor, lawyer, dentist, teacher, nurse, who looked scruffy, compared to one who looked clean and tidy.
The scruffy one would have to work a lot harder to convince me that they knew their subject and cared about what they were doing, but perhaps that says more about me than them.

I think in the case of teachers, setting an example to pupils in terms of behaviour and manners is part of the job description, and knowing how to dress appropriately for work is a liife skill that schools should instill, possibly more by osmosis than by prescription.

Teachers should make an effort with their appearance as it shows respect for their profession, the school and the students. Smart casual is probably the best way to dress with suits reserved for formal occasions like open evenings and the first day of the academic year.

Clean casual clothes aren't scruffy though.
An IT teacher from a local academy was just on Look East, having got his after school club to the finals of a national competition. His hair was greasy and he looked really scruffy and unkempt. The lad with him was in smart school uniform as is required in most Academies to instil a sense of belonging and pride. It was interesting that the interviewer pretty much ignored the scruffy teacher after the introduction.

'too formal'

Yes, I agree - to formal would be just as inappropriate. An example of the alleged 'scruffiness' would be helpful!

The only teacher I really liked was 'bohemian' in her dress, but if she had turned up at school wearing a suit or dressing to impress, she would have looked very uncomfortable and not expressing herself. Teachers are there to get stuck in, so being dressed in clothes that can get messed up doesn't fit the job, for me.

I suppose ripped jeans and dirty jumpers would be inappropriate, but clean, casual clothes are fine for teachers.

No, standards are standards. You can be casually dressed to some extent and still be smart. Scruffy is another matter.