No hum

PS overwhelmed by glut of raspberries. No bees around so what on earth is pollinating them?

Oops! Crossed posts again. Time I went to pick some raspberries and make raspberry vinegar

Yes agree that the issue of colony collapse is very complicated and multiple factors are at work Bags. But the Linden trees is quite a simple cause and effect issue, it doesn't require a degree in toxicology to figure it out. In the words of Albert Einstein 'if it looks like a duck and it quacks, it's probably a duck'!

The Oregon linden tree incident may have been 'that simple', but I don't think the whole problem is. For all we know those trees were sprayed with the wrong dilution of the insecticide, or at the wrong time.

aka, crossed posts. I don't think it's that simple. Scientific problems rarely are.

Thanks, aka. The UK Parliamentary committee one is especially interesting and seems to suggest that multiple applications of several different insecticides are the biggest problem.

I also found this which points out that there are two kinds of neonicotinoids.

It clearly is a very complex problem.

Bags you obviously have a very active mind, but that can lead to over-thinking an issue.
Blossom opens, blossom gets sprayed, bees come along, go on blossom, get nasty OD of insecticide, die

the three routes to exposure

and more

thousands of bees die due to neonicotinoids

Dug out a botany book. "Bees can distinguish at least three colours in addition to ultraviolet, including the most common perianth shades (yellow and blue). Bees are directed to nectar-producing glands by splashes or lines of contrasting colour."

So the wouldn't go for 'unripe' flowers, would they?

That last question of mine arose in my mind after photographing roses yesterday. Some, all on the same plant, had very 'ripe'-looking pollen; others looked is if they needed a little more time to 'ripen'.

Neonicotinoids are systemic insecticides, not contact insecticides, so I wonder if whatever was sprayed on those apple trees was something else, aka?

It could be that they work by contact as well but that's not what I'd understood so far.

Do flowers produce nectar immediately they open or does it take a wee while?

So many questions!

That's interesting, butty. I hadn't heard about that. More research!

aka, that's interesting too. Citation?

jess, indeed! I think I read that the Varroa mite comes from Asia.

We're so clever

Bags an example recently was when trees were sprayed with this particulars insecticide just as the blossom opened and tens of thousands if honey bees died. This was just sheer stupidity and I don't suppose it was an isolated incident either.

Mr. B and I were talking about bees the other day, after he'd come across an article about the breeding of less aggressive queen bees to produce better honey. As he understood the article, these less aggressive queens produce less aggressive worker bees who are less able to defend the hive, leaving it more vulnerable to attack. As a consequence, fewer hives are thriving.
(Unable to provide link to article, unfortunately).

I did not realise that we allow imports of bumble bees. How stupid. This country has no concept of biosecurity at all does it. In NZ and Aus where their wildlife has been devastated by imports (e.g. cats in Aus, possums in NZ) they are much more aware.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130717212007.htm

It wasn't just UK reps that opposed the ban. An article I read on Wiki says the EU did not have a majority on the subject but still issued the ban. (Wondering how they managed that; clearly an undemocratic method was used).

There is also the parasitic mite Varroa destructor being a problem.

Neonicotinoids would only affect honey bees if the stuff got into the nectar. I'm not sure it has been proved that this is the case. Plus plants produce nicotinoids themselves as insecticide – not, presumably, to the same 'strength' as the synthetic ones. Bayer (maker of neonicotinoids) maintains the neonicotinoid ban has distracted the EU from Varroe destructor which it thinks is the fundamental problem affecting bee colonies. Neo nicotinoids have been in use since 1984. They would have affected honey bees sooner if they were as lethal as is now supposed.

Interesting subject. No doubt research will continue and we will become better informed. Meanwhile I hope that whatever is affecting bees so badly is found and dealt with. Hoping, sort of, that the neonicotinoid ban is effective but am worried about the spread of Varroa mite infestations.

So existing stocks can be used over the summer months?

The ban comes into force on December 1st. Why wait?

That's exactly right Anno which is why I was whittering on......

I thought Europe had banned neonocotinoids although our representatives tried to oppose the measure - progressive as ever.

One cause of honey bee "collapse" is when they build a hive inside a disused chimney (in my bedroom) and don't manage to stick it to the side very well, so it falls off a few weeks later – the kerflump woke me up one night. We had sooty honey dripping out of the fireplace in the room below onto the stove. If anyone ever takes the panel off the wall with the fireplace, they'll find thousands of dead bees and some honeycomb wax. #interestinghouse

Just thought on, Neonicotinoids are insecticides, insecticides kill insects, bees are insects........duh!