Abrahamic religions

The Knights Templar were monks and soldiers, formed to protect Christian sites, so hardly representative of the majority of Christians then or now..

The Knights Templar lived hundreds of years ago. The Jews were terribly persecuted by those claiming to be Christians throughout history until WW2. But history isn’t relevant now in the sense that Christians are not persecuting anyone now and are actually much more likely to be persecuted themselves. I know Christians are persecuted in Pakistan and I knew a family who were Christian who left their homeland of India because of persecution of people of their faith. I really don’t think bringing up the Knights Templar or the Inquisition is relevant any longer. Nowadays Christians do not persecute others who are not of their faith. Christianity is no longer forced on anyone and therefore people choose to follow the Christian faith and they absolutely do not torture, kill, or persecute anyone.

but I can assure you they weren't Christians. - not Christians' as you mean, but sadly they described themselves as such and their actions were based on their beliefs.

They did once ask me whether I went to church (there were churches to go to, it wasn’t like Saudi Arabia ) so I fibbed that I did, because otherwise I knew they’d be upset and think I’d go to hell as an unbeliever

Having travelled widely in the middle east as an unaccompanied woman the subject of religion often came up in discussions. People assumed I was christian so I used to answer that I was baptised as a christian (which I was) and that satisfied them. In fact I describe myself as "religious but not christian" because I dont belong to any organised religion nor ever could.

I do Luckygirl3. I know terrible atrocities have been committed by religious groups, but I can assure you they weren't Christians.
And yes, I agree it's good to live in a country where we are free to practice our beliefs (as long as they don't harm others). And I would never force my beliefs on others. We should respect each other.

That's fine nadateturbe - no problem. You are free to believe as you will - and we must be thankful we live in a country where that is possible.

But we cannot blind ourselves to the fact that much violence has been perpetrated in the name of religion. It would be lovely if that were not true, especially for those believers who aspire to peace, but sadly we cannot pretend that is not so.

I live near an architecturally fascinating church that was used by the Knights Templars. They were religious terrorists for goodness sake - and purported to be Christian believers. They travelled thousands of miles with the sole aim of slaying "heathens." I think that is awful and I am sure you do too.

I think those who don't believe are unkind to and critical of believers Luckygirl3.
It might be irrelevant to you, but my life is based on my belief in God. And I can't let people accuse Christians of violence without defending them.
I too think we should all be kind to each other. The world would be a better place.

In the end it is all irrelevant. We have this one life to lead, and no-one can prove or disprove the existence of a god/creator. Basically no-one knows.

So why not have everyone live by the doctrine of simple kindness. If there is a god, then I can't imagine that would not go down well with him/her.

But it seems that for some that is not enough: they must love this postulated god, they must fear this postulated god, they must protect this postulated god from those who might believe differently..... and so the misery goes on and on.

Just be kind to each other for goodness' sake.

Caleo

Nobody can prove God does not exist, and nobody can prove He does exist. God's reality a matter of faith not proof.

I was replying to this. Not the following post.
I believe Christ rose again. When I look at the wondees of creation (and evolution)I have no problem with believing in God.

Thanks Nadateturbe. I simply believe it's possible for there to be religion without superstition and supernatural beliefs, and that the message as exemplified and taught by Jesus of Nazareth can overarch what people sometimes call atheism.

Thanks for enlightening me Caleo.

Vampirequeen 23 October wrote : ''If the OT isn't relevant to Christianity why do Christians use it as evidence that JC is the messiah. Isaiah is often used as evidence but it's not the only source from the OT. Various books and verses are used to support Christians claim that JC was the messiah. They talk about the virgin birth, Bethlehem, that he would come from the tribe of Judah etc.

Talking of Bethlehem. Did you know there were two Bethlehems? One, the one Christians believe is where JC was born, was known as Bethlehem of Judea. This Bethlehem is about 96 miles from Nazareth. However, there was another town called Bethlehem of Zebulun which was about 10 miles from Nazareth. Which was the most likely place for a heavily pregnant woman to be able to travel? But the OT prophecy had to be fulfilled so it had to be Bethlehem of Judea.

Even the Gospels don't all say that he was born in Bethlehem of Judea or any Bethlehem.''

I'd like to reply to VQ's information because I think that even if the stories about the ancestry and birth of JC are false, the ethics , the life , and the work of the historical Jesus is a mark of a huge advance in human civilisation and is historically the guiding light of the United Nations.

Religions are all man made including Christianity and it's true that religions enable wars and cruelty, but despite the horrors of religions they have been the carriers of the precious message.

PS Christian doctrine is that JC was made a man of flesh and blood so he could show us by his life and work how a flesh and blood man can be good and love God.

Nobody can prove God does not exist, and nobody can prove He does exist. God's reality a matter of faith not proof.

Your beliefs are relevant to me VQ

So I should use the wonderful brain God gave me to prove he doesn't exist.
I can think of nothing that could make me happier than following the teachings of Christ.

I've really enjoyed this discussion but sadly I will have to leave it here as we're going away for a few days.

Thank you for a challenging and thought provoking debate.

My beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion.

Vampirequeen, to whom are your beliefs irrelevant?

My beliefs are irrelevant in this instance and I'm not in the business of proving or disproving the existence of a god or gods. I have no desire to undermine anyone's faith as believing in a deity or deities is a personal decision. However, as I stated previously, I do have a problem with blind faith. If God created us then he gave us a questioning mind. Isn't it sort of insulting him not to ask questions?

Nadeturbe , ''How everything came into existence'' is a point of contention among many philosophers.

Nadadeturbe, no such thing as proof apart from mathematics
and formal logic. There is only evidence some of which is more credible, for good reason.

Vampire Queen, ''If, as you say, man only says that he's created in the image of God, then God, who is omnipotent, must have know he was creating a flawed creature. Why did God do this? If he is all loving etc. then surely he would have created a perfect creature that didn't destroy itself and everything it came into contact with.''

Genesis 1 . The Expulsion from Eden is a story that claims to explain how man got to reason for himself. Atheists and many feminists such as I can learn from that story which can inform people who don't believe in any supernatural deity.

I don't admire anyone with blind faith either.
Some of us Christians are intelligent.
Perhaps you can tell us what you believe and how everything came into existence.....with proof of course.

PS Varian. They hate each other enough to kill each other because men need to group together to stay in power, Few men are angels of mercy and kindness who will sacrifice their own benefits for others.

More power to the United Nations!