The devil

I think poor Lucifer's had a bad press. God wanted to keep Adam and Eve in a childlike innocent state. Lucifer wanted to set them free from this false innocence by giving them knowledge. God said, "No" but Lucifer did it anyway. God was peed off with Lucifer and kicked him out of Heaven. Was Lucifer really bad or was history written by the victor?

I wonder when what could be seen as robust challenge becomes plain rudeness? Or is it just rude?
Example: As I said, you don't know what a theory is.

Blondiescot

Bridgeit

He or She may or may not exist, but the actions/ behaviours attributed to He/ She sadly do certainly exist .

Isn't that just a convenient 'get out' clause though? By claiming 'the devil made me do it', isn't that just an excuse for refusing to take responsibility for one's own actions? Does mankind not have free will, after all?

Exactly! Same for good deeds.

I met some evangelicans some years back. They were from an Eastern European country and we took them 'under our wing'. Helping them in all sorts of ways, and giving them a lot of furniture when we were moving as they had managed to buy a small house.

One day she said 'but how do you know what to do, and you are not even Christians!'. I asked her to explain what she meant. And they both said, well you are always helping people and giving stuff, etc, but God is not even telling you to do it. How, why?

They found it hard to believe that the desire to help, to do 'good' deeds and not to do the opposite, could come from the self, rather than God or Evil.

Fascinating theory I studied in the past 'the theory of moral development by Kohlberg (and others).

cynthia- this is truly NOT funny.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

nadateturbe

Still, a theory is not a fact.

As I said, you don't know what a theory is.

What are your thought on the theory of gravity? Wave theory? After all they are "only a theory".

Bridgeit

He or She may or may not exist, but the actions/ behaviours attributed to He/ She sadly do certainly exist .

Isn't that just a convenient 'get out' clause though? By claiming 'the devil made me do it', isn't that just an excuse for refusing to take responsibility for one's own actions? Does mankind not have free will, after all?

He or She may or may not exist, but the actions/ behaviours attributed to He/ She sadly do certainly exist .

Still, a theory is not a fact.

volver

You don't know what Theories are though, do you?

That is because the word has been taken over to describe ANY random thought that anyone has, like "I have never been there or done any research to check, but my theory is that the moon is made of green cheese" That is not a theory, it is an unexamined hunch.

A scientific theory is a term for a hunch which has been thoroughly checked. Volver can describe the journey better that I can by which someone's hunch becomes "Blogg's theory".

This ^^

I believe in God but that doesn't mean I deny evolution. The majority of Christians believe the story of Adam and Eve was used as a metaphor to explain the existence of humans. I accept the big bang theory - but what or who caused it and where did the elements involved come from?

It is true there are many religions but it is also true that those religions also include the existence of the one we call the devil.

Smileless2012

^In these kind of discussions why does there have to be a right or a wrong^ I often wonder why too ENO.

Your response @ 17.29 nadateturbe is the one I would have given. No one can prove that God exists and no one can prove He doesn't; it's simply having faith or not having faith.

Quite so Smileless. In philosophy, it is called the difference between belief and knowledge.

snowberryZ

I watched We Need to talk about Kevin on Netflix recently.
I know it's only fiction but that boy was truly evil in my opinion.
I know a mother's love is supposed to be unconditional but I could never forgive my child for doing that to a sibling.

Haven’t watched it, but started the book and couldn’t finish it. I couldn’t bear the mother who never wanted the baby at all, and never loved him. So according to the book* there was not a scrap of unconditional love anyway.

*Whether that aspect was changed for the film I don’t know, but more than likely I expect.

You don't know what Theories are though, do you?

Thanks smileless .
I have read up on this subject contrary to what you believe volver. I am not ignorant. I know about fossils, and how man has involved, I do actually know who Darwin is. I disagree with some theories, and they are theories.
Some people may be lacking in the ability to gain knowledge and form opinions. I am not one of those people.
Unfortunately I now find it difficult to join in discussions so I should have ignored the thread.

And now I shall sign off.

In these kind of discussions why does there have to be a right or a wrong I often wonder why too ENO.

Your response @ 17.29 nadateturbe is the one I would have given. No one can prove that God exists and no one can prove He doesn't; it's simply having faith or not having faith.

No, what I’m saying is that we all have different abilities due to different backgrounds. Knowledge management is my job title but compare me to my mother, or my next door neighbour or many others and they would be able to fully exploit whatever information is out there. That’s not putting anyone down. I can’t do car mechanics nor nuclear science. That doesn’t make me deficient in any way it just makes me lacking in experience. Same goes…

ExperiencedNotOld

I’d certainly agree as regards evidence. But consider that not everyone is in a place to have access or know how to seek what might be available, let alone form their own informed opinion. Not all are as strong as some.
As said, discussion gives thought, dominating doesn’t.

Read that again ExperiencedNotOld.

Are you seriously suggesting that some people are unable to process evidence and form their own opinions?

Can you imagine the uproar if I said that?

Thinking on, I have my own opinion, but I only view that as current. I’ve come a long way from the religiously dominated world I was raised in and believe myself to still be on that journey.
I’ll make an observation - I posted this morning about having seen evil discussed in a series about drugs. No one picked up on this. I suspect it’s too emotive an issue for some and to foreign for others. Is either way - or any position in between - right or wrong?
No, the opinions are all valid, even if it’s not having one.

I’d certainly agree as regards evidence. But consider that not everyone is in a place to have access or know how to seek what might be available, let alone form their own informed opinion. Not all are as strong as some.
As said, discussion gives thought, dominating doesn’t.

They say that everything has its opposite, so if there is a god, there must be a devil. However, I don't believe 'God' exists as an actual being. I think it is like Father Christmas, it represents all that is good in humans. Therefore the 'devil' represents all that is evil.

MissAdventure- it was your question. Please come back and tell us why and what you think.

I don't know how to influence people who don't believe in evidence, though. Absolutely, believe anything that makes you feel better, but don't deny evidence and say it doesn't prove anything because it doesn't fit with your world view. 🤷🏼😕

In these kind of discussions, why does there have to be a right and a wrong? I tend to find that there we all hold an individual view based on our life experience. That experience differs, so we hold different views. Discussion should influence the evolution of those views, not attempt to dominate.