I wish that I had a Faith

I am a Unitarian of the Humanist sort. I am not other worldly, and am not attracted to any supernatural beings. I like the Catholic idea of saints (and their statues)as aids to prayer. I particularly like Saint Teresa of Avila. I also like Saint Augustine's idea that evil is absence of Good.

However I would not try to become a Catholic as I will not be told by others what I should believe.

Violet Sky My heart goes out to the child you. How wonderful that you have found peace.

My feelings towards faith, religion and God are summed up perfectly by Grayson Perry's Recipe for Humanity.

You will die, you are alone
There is no god upon his throne
Impose thy will upon earth’s mess
Else your life is meaningless
No hell below, no heaven above,
Live life now and act with love.

When my brother was dying of brain cancer a vicar came to see him in the hospice and let him hold a olive wood cross. The vicar turned to my sister in law and said " do you think he is seeing the light of Christ ? "
My brother opened his eyes and said
" if you have a copy of the Koran I will put it in my other hand. I'm hedging my bets ! "
Perhaps we all do that when the end is near. Because who knows what happens next ?

As a child I was subjected to the trio of abuses from different family members. I was told I was a bad child and I truly believed it. My family were all athiest

There was a church at one of the many places we lived. A friend and I used to go there and we were always welcomed, come by any time and make yourself a tea and help yourself to a biscuit. My friend was a Christian and I threw myself into it.

We attended services, helped with the bell ringing and I spent a lot of time trying to learn how to be good so that the bad things would stop happening. They didn't.

I was a child who believed there was a god because all these good and kind people did but if he was there I felt like he rejected me too.

I stopped going.

Eventually counselling saved me and actually it was a Christian counselling service so I will always be grateful to them for that. I learned that I wasn't ever a bad child.

Over the course of my life though I have met plenty of Christians who were not good people too.

Part of me still wishes I had faith but I just don't. I am grateful for the kind people of faith I have met in life though.

My conclusion on all this is that, at base, all religions are about caring for each other - they get horrifically corrupted and perpetrate evils that are nothing to do with the original premise.

So -- avoid the potential for corruption and live your life centred around kindness - absolutely nothing else matters.

The OP states that she wished she has a faith.

Personally, I am really, sincerely, happy that I have none.

I have believed that Darwin's theory of evolution and Christian faith are mutually exclusive.

I wouldn't dream of trying to patronise you Alegrias. Your posts are informative and I respect what you have to say and I agree that it is wrong to misrepresent scientific research to suit beliefs.

I have never thought of the BBT as a creation story in the religious sense. I believe in the science there.

DiscoDancer, I didn’t say that the whole of the Old Testament was a work of fiction, but I don’t take those parts which refer to how the world and man were created as truth as when those parts were written the authors were much further removed from the assumed time of creation and evolution of man than they were from us today. By millions of years. Paul had no greater knowledge of such things when he wrote. I accept Biblical accounts of contemporary, or near-contempory, events. I accept that Jesus existed and there is historical evidence that He did. I believe in God. But being a Christian doesn’t require blind belief in every word of the Bible. Also, being a non-Christian doesn’t mean not believing in God - Jews for instance believe in God but are not followers of Jesus.

Thank you Alegrias
I really should try to read the thread properly.
I got a bit overexcited to see that my thread was still being posted on

There's a thing around that says that there are no atheists in foxholes because when faced with adversity or even death, people naturally start, miraculously, to believe in God. Not entirely true

ffrf.org/campaigns/atheists-in-foxholes

Other posters have referred to the BBT as a creation story this morning.

What’s the atheist in a foxhole thing Al?
I know that this was originally my thread, but I can’t make head nor tail of most of it now!
(Btw, I wasn’t referring to the BBT as a ‘creation story’)

I'm just going to make a post that puts my side of the story.

I don't try to dissuade anyone from their faith, whether they are Christian, Jew, Muslim or anything else. Everyone is entitled to believe anything they like. Such beliefs are, I believe, based on faith, which is the topic of this thread. Faith is, as I understand it, a completely free standing concept, in that "proof" is not required.

That's why I get a wee bit flummoxed when people try to deny evolution, or pretend that the Big Bang theory is a creation story. Science deals in provable theories, not in faith. Believe what you like, but please don't try to justify your beliefs by misrepresenting science.

I try not to engage in philosophical or faith discussion, becuase I'm not equipped. And people who pick up on little nuggets such as a priest postulated the Big Bang, are, I'm afraid, misrepresenting the real world to suit their beliefs. And I don't think that's fair.

Now if anyone would like to patronise me and tell me that God is guiding my thoughts, that I only have to accept him into my life, and that there are no atheists in foxholes, I shall be quite put out.

Sorry, I’m reading the thread backwards. So I’m missing out chunks of posts…
I wouldn’t recommend this method

My dad’s actually a bit of an authority (well, to me, at least) on Darwinism; more particularly his grandfather Erasmus, whose ideas Charles actually built upon (or ripped off, if you listen to my father).

Hello! I’m very pleasantly surprised to see that this thread has been unearthed!
GSM I totally agree with your posts about science and creation stories.
A special hello ? to Alegrias too. It’s nice to see a friendly familiar ‘face’

Neen loved the post. Excellent advice.
I think we all have faith either in God, an imposter 'god' or indeed 'man'. Much arguement on this thread that we have science so don't need god. As a Christian I find scientific discoveries show how wonderful God is. The 'big bang' theory was first posed by a priest, very much a creation story. As modern physics has developed over the last hundred years (quantum theory, inflationary theory and multi-verses) is actually giving more questions than answers. Seems to me that God's ways are truly beyond our understanding. But to the non-believer their faith is based on 'science explains god away'. How do I put this. I make fire so I don't need God to keep me warm, I am god.
But Neen has told us of her experience - that of the living God. Echoes that of myself and many, many others.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m a Christian, though not a regular churchgoer. I don’t find Darwin’s theories or the Big Bang theory out of kilter with my beliefs. The Old Testament was written by men who wanted to find an explanation for the creation of the world and of man but they had absolutely no idea how it all happened so made up stories. Nowadays we know those stories to be incorrect but that isn’t to say that God, or some higher being if you like, didn’t orchestrate the creation of the universe and the evolution of animals. You may believe that, you may say it’s tosh,, but can you disprove it?

I don’t understand you at all. I completely get that non Christians have no belief in God, or anything He has done. It’s sad...but makes sense.

You say all the Old Testament stories are made up, so how is it, that Paul talks about Jesus being the second Adam? This is Adam...the first man, created by God, not evolved from something else...from the Old Testament.

This type of thinking is neither one thing nor the other. Taking some bits of the Bible as truth...but not others.

As Christians, we don’t need to prove or disprove anything. It is something we do for ourselves, and hope others will join us.

Thank you Germanshepherdsmum

You could follow the Ten Commandments and the teachings of Jesus, who I do believe was a real person, without necessarily believing in the existence of God such as the ancients believed.

It is indoctrinated in many of us from a very young age and as I type this I can feel myself giving an upward glance and a swift apology just in case.

Sorry Alegrias, haven’t read all the older posts and intended no criticism of you. I always respect your scientific contributions. Just saying it is possible to reconcile science and faith if one wishes.

Thanks Skydancer (lovely name!).

I agree with everything Germanshepherdsmum has said. It makes total sense.

Check my contributions further up GSM, you'll see that I posted several months ago that I can understand how people might think there need to be a guiding hand, but that I personally don't need that because the scientific explanation is more convincing.

I'm not trying to stop you believing what you like, but nobody should make false statements about science just to support their Bronze Age belief system.

I’m a Christian, though not a regular churchgoer. I don’t find Darwin’s theories or the Big Bang theory out of kilter with my beliefs. The Old Testament was written by men who wanted to find an explanation for the creation of the world and of man but they had absolutely no idea how it all happened so made up stories. Nowadays we know those stories to be incorrect but that isn’t to say that God, or some higher being if you like, didn’t orchestrate the creation of the universe and the evolution of animals. You may believe that, you may say it’s tosh,, but can you disprove it?

Lillian40

Sadly most of Darwin's theories are now proving to be wrong, he just didn't have all the information in those days. we are humans and always have been. He was a leader of his time, but now mostly wrong.

Gosh just opened this thread after a recent contribution and this load of old rubbish was at the top of the page.

It is 100%, entirely, completely wrong.

Darwin's theories are not being proved wrong and we evolved as human beings, same as every other animal in the history of the world has evolved.

Have faith if you want or need to, that is your prerogative, but if you start denying science we're into a whole different ballgame.

Try the Alpha course Fanny if you're not sure. Worked for me when I was in my 40s after not attending church since Sunday school.