I wish that I had a Faith

Good post Doodle yesterday @ 20.00. My faith has also served as a crutch. It helped me come to terms with the abuse I experienced as child, and our faith has sustained us through the last 10 years of estrangement from our son.

I don't understand why some feel the need to ridicule those with faith, any faith. What difference does it make to your life? Why do you care?

People with a faith seem to think that any criticism of them is "ridiculing" them.

I don't believe what you believe and think that hoping that somebody/something else will sort out everything for you is immature, even if the somebody/something else is God. Sort it out for yourself. Stop relying on outside forces, even religious ones.

I care because you're all sat there telling me I'm ridiculing you, and expecting special treatment because you believe in a Bronze Age cult whose high priests get to sit in Parliament.

In my experience of life there are very few people indeed who can "sort it all out for themselves". We all need others, greatly; that's the foundation of humanism as well as finding oneself having a spiritual side to our lives.

IME also, far from childish or immature, taking on the task of compassion love in private and public life is a substantial undertaking, sometimes risky: my spiritual life helps shape the way I see the world, but we all live according to an ideology, which can include not adhering to a faith.

We need not lose respect because we disagree.

Reading different threads on Gransnet there are sometimes deliberate provocative statements which don't further the matter under discussion a great deal, indeed, they tend to upstage the matter in hand.

To add a practical note to those who dont have a faith of any kind,

...... please do remember that only a few with faith believe that a "God" can actually intervene at a personal or social level to change destinies, or give us life in the flesh after death: yes there are some who believe this as an absolute. Its probably better, when addressing people of faith as a group, to remember this: be specific?

Telling someone who has faith that they're immature, and believe, hope and think that everything will be sorted out for them is ridiculing volver, and also demonstrates that you have absolutely no understanding of what having religious faith means.

Faith isn't constrained to religion, we exercise faith in all areas of our lives. Faith that the doctor we see will be able to make a diagnosis and make us well. Faith that the chair you're about to sit on wont give way. Faith that when you put your card into a machine to withdraw money, that you'll get the card back.

Faith is the complete confidence in someone or something.

I know what "faith" means.

You can have faith in the doctor because s/he is sitting there in front of you and might have his/her medical degree framed on the wall. Chairs generally don’t give way under you because of physics. Unless they are badly made, of course. You get the card back because its less hassle for the financial institution to give it back than to keep it, unless you are a known criminal. And the default is to return the card, which is actually the simplest thing. (ask me how I know ) People who have actually worked on ATM design generally prefer Dip card readers where your card remains visible. So I have confidence in those things because its proven how they work.

So I don’t have faith in an unknown, invisible and supernatural entity. You may, but don't try to tell me its the same as expecting you'll get your card back.

Luckygirl

My conclusion on all this is that, at base, all religions are about caring for each other - they get horrifically corrupted and perpetrate evils that are nothing to do with the original premise.

So -- avoid the potential for corruption and live your life centred around kindness - absolutely nothing else matters.

I quite agree

I didn't say it was the same volver did I.

Smileless2012

I didn't say it was the same volver did I.

Did you not?

Faith isn't constrained to religion, we exercise faith in all areas of our lives.

JaneJudge

Luckygirl
My conclusion on all this is that, at base, all religions are about caring for each other - they get horrifically corrupted and perpetrate evils that are nothing to do with the original premise.

So -- avoid the potential for corruption and live your life centred around kindness - absolutely nothing else matters.

I quite agree
I agree too. And if you can do that without blaming religious faith or no religious faith for the evils of the world, that’s even better.

No volver, I didn't.

Smileless2012

No volver, I didn't.

OK, then I misunderstood, sorry.

But it does seem to me that you are comparing the faith we have in everyday things, with faith in a religion.

We can trust in the everyday things because there is an explanation of how they work, that can be proved and relied upon. We can have "faith" in the doctor's diagnosis because they have seen many people with our symptoms and they can identify what is wrong with us and how you cure that, based on proven treatments.

That kind of faith, which is probably better described as "trust" (?) is not the same as a belief in a supernatural being or force that is predicated on no evidence at all.

I can appreciate that this is the kind of faith that religion requires, but it is not the same as faith in your chair to hold up when you sit in it.

No worries volver. It wasn't intended to be a comparison, it was to illustrate that faith isn't only about religion.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe. I had Catholicism knocked into me (literally at times). Life events have knocked it right back out again.

I've caught up with this thread since I commented quite a while ago and I have no idea what to do with any of it...

But I have questions

Does society dictate religion or does religion dictate society?

Because:

1. In some societies cultural practices are followed by those with specific religions even though they aren't written into the religion itself. (I think)

2. Is it Christianity where there is an old and new testament? I don't rely on my memory, if so was the new testament changed to reflect new societal norms or did the new testament change societal norms? Is it still subject to change? Can it be rewritten?

3 Some religions, there seems to be a disconnect. Some churches actively campaign against what they consider a sin, like homosexuality whereas others except anyone and would not preach homosexuality as a sin. How can this be? Would it benefit religion as a whole to become more progressive and accepting? Not just for itself but for its followers.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Wyllow3 wrote:

". please do remember that only a few with faith believe that a "God" can actually intervene at a personal or social level to change destinies, or give us life in the flesh after death: yes there are some who believe this as an absolute. Its probably better, when addressing people of faith as a group, to remember this: be specific?"

The interventionist God is why a lot of people find Xianity as usually presented unconscionable. Does anyone really worthship a deity that is whimsical to the point of irrationality?

It depends on the society. Here in the UK neither applies. We are multi cultural so there are a multitude of faiths that can be freely pursued.

In answer to question I would say that the aforementioned applies. It depends on the society and prevailing religion being practised.

Yes, the Christian bible has an old and new testament. What makes you think the new testament has ever been changed? It is, apart from the book of Revelations, a record of the life and teachings of Jesus.

Christians believe that the life and teachings of Jesus have influenced societies, but that view will not be shared I'm sure by those who don't believe in him.

I'm C of E, homosexuality is a contentious issue when it comes to gay marriage and there is a disconnect because there are gay ministers, but I've never witnessed an active campaign against homosexuality.

I think Christianity is more accepting than perhaps people realise, gay ministers for example and marrying divorcees. As for becoming more progressive what does that mean exactly?

That “supernatural entity” is what I call “God” - the Omnipotent. And my faith in Him, has seen me through some difficult times. Very simplistic !

you said it....not me...

I'm a Christian and to answer your question Caleo no, I do not worship "a deity that is whimsical to the point of irrationality".

Caleo

Wyllow3 wrote:

". please do remember that only a few with faith believe that a "God" can actually intervene at a personal or social level to change destinies, or give us life in the flesh after death: yes there are some who believe this as an absolute. Its probably better, when addressing people of faith as a group, to remember this: be specific?"

The interventionist God is why a lot of people find Xianity as usually presented unconscionable. Does anyone really worthship a deity that is whimsical to the point of irrationality?

No, I dont.

There are thousands of gods globally

As an atheist I only believe in 1 less than than average religious person

As for more progressive I wasn't targeting one religion for that but Christianity for example, is global and different counties or even areas have different fundamental outlooks or interpretations

I find that hard to understand because it seems to me that the general views of people in that area are being pondered too rather than everyone following the same teaching

I understand that people interpret their religions teachings in a different way but I can't understand it amongst the leadership of the same organisation

I find that positive and natural.

am now totally perplexed as to the point of all this discussion.
If I write how I genuinely feel, then that is wrong - because it goes against those with 'faith'.

So should I lie? - I could say (totally incorretly), I have total !!!respect for those who wish to believe in gods, etc!!! Or should I just not take part in this discussion? = only those with faith should be permitted to do so.

Strange, I had this idea that debate, discussion was to get opinions from all sides of any arguement.

I wrote how I feel, nothing on here has helped me change my mind or feelings about this. The fact that people here do not LIKE the feelings I get when trying to talk to someone who tells me about this wondrous being up on high does not change them in any way.

Sadly, I do know far too many people who have become atheistic as their lives have progressed who then been totally cut out from, and ostracised by their loving, religious (different ones) families.

On the other hand the Humanists I have come across have been some of the kindest, most caring people ever.

Will not be taking part in this forum from now on.

Franbern, the whole forum (ie Gransnet)?
Or just this thread?

Atheist, agnostic, humanist, with a faith, without a faith, does it matter?
Only if you ridicule members of other groups or claim that only your POV has value.