From the Humanist Association - discuss

silly - me?
I am not four, and I don't even say that to four year old DGC.

I will just say that members of my family live overseas, are entitled to vote in Uk elections but will not do so because they say that, as they do not live here, they do not feel entitled to make comment or vote on how we live in this country, even though they have family still living here.
I respect that.

I won't comment any more on the customs in your country, illogical and non-inclusive though they may seem to me.

As for God knowing a person had not lead a Christian life, we need to remember the thief on the cross , he was in the throes of death when he was forgiven - today you will be with me in paradise

I would like to ask how a church wedding or funeral can be held without any mention of God, very strange church , why doesn't the priest advice the families a humanist wedding or funeral would suit their needs .

You must live in a very rough area , perhaps great poverty and lack of education explains it

I wasn't laughing at you there roses. Just him and his mates.

I wonder how much you really know personally about faith schools. My GS attends one, and believe me, there are all sorts there!

Not only that, his friends come from the mix of kids he meets at church. Again - varied.

NEVER start a post with "don't be silly". There should be a complete ban on it.

It is actually a personal attack.

Another unpleasant, patronising post

Don't be silly now Jalima- the poor do no pay tax, so wouldn't pay the Church tax either or very little.

And of course all who want it get a Christian funeral- and the Vicar even does as the family asks and 'cuts out most of the religious stuff as it's not their cup of tea, thanks' .... nobody is refused. Same for baptisms- and to a very large extent, same for weddings unless it is so obvious that the Vicar may ask them to reconsider their reasons (there is NO charge either- unlike in the UK- as ti used to be covered by the tax people paid before - which some still choose to pay, but few). BTW the Church buildings- it is lovely, looking at it from my kitchen now, all snowy and twinkly- is paid for by the Council, not the Church - eg tax payers who are mostly not Church attenders. About 30000 a year for maintenance and heating for a small village of 900 inhabitants- and about 10 services a year, a few weddings and concerts, and many funerals. I imagine that as the older generation dies off, the youngsters are going to begin to question that.

And as God sees in your heart- he would know wouldn't it- that the person has not lived their life as a Christian and not truly come back to the faith- but are just doing so as an insurance, no?

Because jingl ( and have already answered this a few times on this going round in circles thread) I believe, as do some others that faith schools are divisive. This means ALL faiths.

rosesarered why?

Yes, there are some C of E schools which have a very high proportion of pupils of other religions.

As for separating the 'sheep from the goats' it presumably means that those who can afford to pay the 3% tax can proclaim their Christianity in your country, but the poor who may not be able to afford it have to hide their faith under a bushel.
Truly a strange system.
And someone who may have wavered for years in their faith would be frowned upon for wanting a Christian funeral service - as an insurance, just in case there is a Heaven.

50 years ago my two youngest siblings were educated in an Anglican school, our father was preacher in the baptist church , also in the same school , three RC children who could have had a bus pass to travel three miles to the RC school, their parents chose the Anglican school , no segregation, no ghetto, just children receiving a good education . Fifty years on I see children not only of different faiths but also from India and Tibet in Anglican and RC schools

Not disagreeing at all DJ, Iam, Jalima, AB and others, that was my experience 30+ years ago in S London, but alas, teacup........storm
There will always people who cannot see the former without whipping up the latter

Are there any schools that do not have children from all faiths?
I do not know of any CofE school that only takes CofE, or any catholic school that only takes catholics. Even they bring children from different backgrounds together.
Maybe free schools do, but there are fortunately not many of them.

The high school I went to was a Church Schools school. It was CofE.

I have just looked at their RE syllabus, and this is part of year 9.

"Pupils will consider how religious belief affects people’s images of God and will be challenged to explain their own view of God. One unit will be devoted to issues of life, death and beyond with reference to the sanctity of life from the point of view of Humanist, Muslim and Christian perspectives. A further topic of study will consider why we suffer and how suffering affects belief in God.

Religious Studies includes learning about ourselves and others. The beliefs and values studied are the foundation of personal choice. Such study is personally challenging and is relevant to many aspects of learning and achievement throughout life."

Other religions are studied in other years.
It certainly wasn't like that when I was there, Christianity and that was it.

One day it will happen thatbags and then it will seem strange to people that faith schools ever existed! Roll on that day.

It does seem this has moved from the role of the Anglican Church in England to Muslims , there is no segregation in Anglican schools

"At best a faith-based education system is a wasted opportunity to bring children from different backgrounds together; at worst it is fuelling segregation and allowing children from a very young age to live parallel lives to their peers from other faiths or ethnicities."

From an NSS blog.

I fully understand the church's role in UK educational history. Part of that history means that it has, whether people like it or not, created a false 2-tier system in many areas and in many people's thinking.

If I was i/c education I would make all schools community schools and support all schools to become as good as the best! I would have a school week that ended early on a Friday so that religious or otherwise (e.g. Humanist) organisations could provide spiritual / faith /values sessions and activities. This would give teachers time for their planning , preparation and assessment without the need for cover staff. Two birds/one stone

Not because I do not like or disrespect people of faith. I have friends and family, whom I love, from many different belief systems and none! I would not dream of preventing people from worshiping with co-believers.

I simply think it would be healthier for state institutions, which schools are, not to link to any particular religion. It works well in other countries where Christianity thrives!

jingle Sadly I have to say that in my experience there are very many families who only want their children to mix with children from a similar background to their own and reject schools not because of the quality of the education or the results but because the school serves a community that they do not wish their child to associate with.

What denomination are you speaking of Granjura please?

I dislike the way in which some threads deteriorate into personal attacks and I try and avoid contributing. On this occasion I feel it necessary to say that I feel you are being judgemental granjura, despite your protestations to the contrary. You are judging people who turn to the Church for significant occasions yet who aren't what you see as either committed or genuine Christians.
The vicar who Christened by children and buried my parents has become a friend. He is now a retired Dean. He was involved in the application process for the children's application to our local C of E high school. The school is sought after and attending for a year (as you suggested would suffice in an earlier post) just wouldn't do here. It's necessary to attend Church every week for the 11 years before you make the application. In addition, it's expected the children will be involved in Church groups and activities and that parents will contribute to Church life. His view about families who drop off attendance once the children get their place is simple. He says if we haven't offered enough to keep them in the Church over that 11 years, we need to look at ourselves rather than Judge. His view also, is that people attend Church regularly at different times in their lives, they may dip in and out of regular attendance but their faith may remain steadfast or suffer crises of confidence and belief, as indeed he readily admits, has his own faith.

Our local Church is struggling to raise the funds to maintain the wonderful building. Many Church buildings have been sold in order to maintain those that are more regularly attended and to support other Church charitable works.

Live and let live, surely that's what we all want. Our local Muslim community have been fund raising and supporting flood victims alongside other charities. That's what faith is about surely.

All of course, in a very open and ecumenical way. Not MY Church though, clearly.

Certainly would separate the sheep from the goats - as it did here.

So which are welcome (or not) at your church then?

Using the Church and its staff and volunteers as an 'insurance policy' is amazingly disrespectful in this context, truly.
Rubbish!!
And how rude!

Anyway it costs a lot to get married in church, it is not free, nor are baptisms or funerals.

And our church is lovely and welcoming to everyone, including those who may have strayed or who don't go very often.
They must be true Christians here.
What did Jesus say about the lost sheep and the prodigal son?
Don't welcome them? I think not.

Live and let live- is indeed a wonderful motto I can totally adhere too.

But I was always told that your freedom needs to stop when it affects others negatively and hurts them. Having a divisive school system negatively affects those left out- and eventually negatively affects the whole of society- and this hurts all- as when a society becomes so divided, in the 'haves' and the 'have nots' and mobility is perceived to be practically impossible -then what. Keep our children and grandchildren behind electric fences in cotton-wool?

I wonder what Jesus would say about that? Good that the Bishop of Oxford and others are aware that holding on to privileges is damaging, to the Church, and to society at large. Bravo.

Amen.

Hurt is not the right word. But if you were a Vicar, and people constantly said to you 'I want your services and the use of the Church- but I want nothing to do with your beliefs, and I am certainly not paying for them' day in day out- how would you feel?

You'd try and not judge, you'd smile and nod, and get on with the job (and yet, and yet ... come on... they are human too, Christians and all).