A very modern death

The funeral director in our village small town is a family business and they have lived in the place for 200 yrs. When my parents died and wanted a cremation and he strongly advised not to go for expensive coffins.
As it is a small family business his reputation for fairness and good service is particularly important.

It really is a waste of resources to spend ££££s on a coffin to rot in the ground.

Marmight I prefer to use "Died and dead" I find euphemisms unhelpful.

Jollyg?

I hadn't even read your post.

Thank you Jane - my goodness that does sound like a mind boggling dinner party . I agree that funerals have a greater purpose in comforting the living and elaborately detailed requests that may also cost a lot don't mean you are loved more if they bankrupted themselves carrying them out. There is a lot of (often very subtle) guilt placed on people by funeral service providers and this has been exacerbated by the growth of large funeral companies, edging out the small family companies who are better placed to offer personalised (to the family finances) services.

Interestingly the RCN have just released a report that shows most nurses feel they are poorly prepared for helping the dying and talking to them. They also feel the dying are very poorly served by the NHS. Something I have addressed and feel very strongly about.

YY to legalised euthanasia and the greater dignity this affords. Nobody has to go through with a plan to euthanise themselves in countries where it is legal but they often talk of how the availability of this option, and the knowledge of this, is comforting and makes it easier for them to bear the travails of a life that is ending.

Hi MT I'm a bit like bags - don't really mind (but I do care) what happens to my mortal remains once I've died, and I think my close family (husband, grown up children, siblings) know me well enough to have a good stab at doing what they think I'd approve of. I'd like to see a funeral director try and bully any one of the aforementioned family members . I can imagine my daughter strolling in and saying "Cheapest (coffin) you've got, please" and if met by any sales talk her response would be "Did you not hear what I said?" accompanied by one of her sweet smiles.

The family death that affected me the most to date was my mother's death. We all knew she was dying and she let us know what music she wanted played (Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring) and all sorts of other details. She gave every single one of her belongings/possessions away which meant that the day she died we left with some framed photos in a supermarket bag, plus the two new nighties we had bought for her - and which my sister then claimed (saying "Why not, they're good as new" when I said "Yikes, how can you do that?") But, despite all this down-to-earthness, I still freaked out at the end and bolted, I couldn't face it that my mother was dead.

I think you can do all the planning in the world to prepare for the death of a loved one, but you never know how you're going to be till it happens.

Meant to add (confess), I didn't read your entire article (just skimmed it), because personally I'm not that interested in how our attitudes to death have developed. Also, I've experienced the ritual and process around Zulu funerals, so I know there are other non-Western European ways of doing things as far as death is concerned.

There was this other blog post on the subject too

www.gransnet.com/forums/blogs/1210585-A-deathly-fascination

Thanks Granny I would be very interested to hear of your experiences of Zulu funerals and rituals and I will have a look at that link.

I have also written of my experiences of death in Mexico and did make it clear that this article is from a Cauc perspective . As a STN I did self direct my own study into the rituals of other religions and cultures as otherwise things can get a little moncultural.

Granny- I relate to your experiences surrounding the death of your mother. No matter how much we plan there is still that 'They are dead' moment that nothing prepared me for. I tend to intellectualise in order to manage my feelings (and it is not always helpful) but I realised that we all, including me, have to face this. There is no escaping. I remember reading Susan Hill's book 'Family' which focuses upon her attempts to have children and the death of her daughter Imogen, born too early. Hill describes that state of wonder and suspended reality you can feel at the moment of death. I felt that too.

Granny

I have just realised who the author of that blog is- I have a copy of her book at home in my to review pile from the publishers!

What's an STN, please?

TMT I didn't say that this was not for public discussion or in bad taste because you chose to do so. I said I didn't want to discuss this on a forum. That was my choice and I would not suggest to another GNetter what she/he should or should not post.

As an avid reader, I have read many books on many subjects including personal themes and events.

As a former nurse I dealt with death and dying on many occasions including sitting with patients until they died. Also having worked with mentally ill patients I know only too well the adverse effect of keeping things behind closed doors.

Sorry- STN is an abbreviation for Student Nurse Ana.

Argus I never meant to suggest you did so apologies if that is how I came across

HI again MT, the summary on this link below describes Zulu burial rituals quite well, in that the whole community is involved, and there is lots of aCapella singing, which is very soothing.

www.answers.com/Q/What_happens_at_a_Zulu_funeral

I once attended a Zulu funeral where the person delivering the eulogy was overcome with emotion, and someone started singing in a low voice, and before long, the whole room had joined in, singing in beautiful harmonies. I later asked what the song was, and it was simply a repeated refrain to encourage the deceased to "Hamba kahle, umfowethu" (go well my brother). When the eulogiser had regained composure, the singing faded away, only to crescendo again when the next bout of raw grief struck. It was a deeply moving experience.

Wow- thanks. I shall enjoy reading that.

I cam imagine how beautiful and moving that was- a heartfelt and spontaneous 'when the spirit moves us' moment and of course what I most wanted most (and I imagine I am fairly typical) is a safe and worry free passage for my loved one to whatever/wherever he or she was going to.

It is a taboo subject thatbags - I was widowed when young and people simply don't know what to say. Children are very interested with lots of questions- it was their parents who cringed with embarrassment and tried to change the subject.
It is why we get euphemisms like 'passed away' ,'gone to sleep etc'.
It doesn't bother me what people do with my remains but it does bother me that others will have to deal with it and the funeral is for them- they need to know your wishes, it makes it easier for them
It is a shame that it is a subject that can't be openly discussed.

Have you ever sat there at the Funeral of a loved one- and when listening to the Hymns or the Vicar, etc- thinking OMG if s/he could hear this they would be so cross- knowing that was is being said goes against all the believed, or rather not believed in? I know I won't be there- but I'd hate that to happen ;)

I like having an irreverent and quirky look at death, with a soh- really- and can't stand all this 's/he is now re-united with so and so, and no fear in the valley of death, and life eternal' and so on. No problem of course when you know the deceased believed that to be their truth- but not when you know s/he would not have believed a word and would find it truly senseless or even offensive.

Gran

My father did not believe at all and did the head in the sand 'do what you want-I won't be here' thing. His ultra religious funeral did not reflect anything about his life to us children. His second wife went to church (although she was the most ungodly woman in terms of being a decent person!) so the funeral was for her really and so she could show us all off as some kind of united family.

It felt terribly hypocritical to us like we were in a play or film.

And that is all because those arranging it have not discussed it, granjura - a vicar etc will not say 'reunited' etc if you have asked them not to. If you don't discuss it they will go to their default option.

My friend had requested that the vicar didn't say any words- her daughter's said it. She had asked her daughter's first. Most people don't have the discussion.

Just read the article. There are an awful lot of generalisations in it and the writer's assertions do not chime with my experiences.

I think it's sensible to make broad plans for ones own funeral as it saves those left from having to do it. My father did just that leaving me to choose readings, music and hymns but specifying that it was to be unostentatious and that he would like his old friend - a Canon - to say his Requiem. I've done the same. Death is certainly not a taboo subject amongst my family and friends, some Christian, some Sikh some Hindu, some Muslim and some agnostic.

Can I also take issue with your assertion that for those of us with a religious belief the idea of an afterlife is the central point of that belief. What utter nonsense. The point of being a Christian is build the Kingdom here and now by living as one should. Life after death is concept with no meaning as God is beyond time and space.

I have just started to read the Times. Research says that only 1 in 10 nurses say they can look after dying patients properly. While I can see that a lot of that is down to staffing shortages only 19.3% say they could discuss death with the patient and the care they wanted. A quarter said that they lacked the training to talk about death.

No apology necessary TMT. I just wanted to clarify my post.

I'm impressed you found time to study other religions and cultures whilst you were training. I was too bogged down when I was a SN (as we were called then) with medical studies to have time to study anything else. I do admit to enjoying the odd party I between times

I think the heading "A very modern death" should have been sufficient to alert people to its subject matter and to enable them to avoid the thread if they so wished.

Basics like whether a person would wish to be buried or cremated should I think be discussed. It is much easier to talk about these issues when in good health. Even though my elderly neighbour's wife had a terminal illness, they had not discussed what would happen when she died. He arranged for his wife to be cremated, and he buried her ashes in the garden. He later found a note in a drawer in which she said she wished to be buried in the local cemetery.

I do think it might be useful for some sort of indication to be given as to how the funeral should be conducted - particularly if more than one family member will be involved in making the arrangements. Differences of opinion can sometimes cause distress and unpleasantness. Even if only one person is responsible for the arrangements, they may prefer to have some idea of their loved one's wishes, or to be told that they are at liberty to do whatever they think fit.

I also believe in legalised euthanasia- when the time comes, that I'm no longer able to cope. I wish to avoid the misery of a meaningless existance.
I think that we have to plan ahead and be prepared and make sure that everyone knows our wishes.
I like the idea of friends gathering to celebrate. I'd pay for that, rather than an expensive funeral.

I'm sure it was Eloethan but we are allowed to express our views on any thread.

Leticia- I have a few good friends who are Vicars- one of them in particular we have lunch with once a month as we host the 'elderly' here, as it used to be the Vicarage. He says he finds it so uncomfortable when people ask him to do a Funeral but say 'don't talk about God or make it religious in any way' - and I am with him. Why ask a Vicar to do the ceremony, if you do not believe in anything that they clearly do- or have a Christian funeral if you are not in any way shape or form one???

Same for weddins and baptism when it is clearly for social reasons, school entrance or the fancy video... Hollywood style.

Quoting MiceElf, " Life after death is a concept with no meaning as God is beyond time and space."

Yes! I like that.