Thoughts from the Teapot

I've been thinking about this and have come to the conclusion that 'man' grouped together mainly to protect themselves from other groups of humans. So what does that say about us?

Quite. There are only a very few social insects too, out of the gazillions of species.

Bags I think that there are more species of spiders than of any other animal, so a lot of non-social creatures. Imagine what spiders would achieve if they were social animals!

Yes; I didn't get to watch it properly. Can't believe how brave he was. I've been watching The Tudors. Didn't bother with it first time round [couldn't get my head round Henry being young and good looking] but I've been enjoying it this time [when I can stay awake long enough to watch it; usually nod off three quarters of the way through the first episode]. Looking forward to The White Queen, as well . Got to admit that I'm still getting More, Wolsey and Cromwell mixed up. If I'd been around at that time I'd have been non ambitious and kept my head down [and hopefully on] although I'd probably have ended up as one of those innocent people that were accused of something they hadn't done and ended up being hung, drawn and quartered .

They were so brave in those days! Henry V111 could dream up some horrible deaths for people he didn't like!

I've got to watch that again Tegan. Seem to remember I was Gransnetting at the same time! It was very interesting. There was a lot about Tyndale in the books Wolf Hall and Bring up the Bodies.

Maybe I could put myself forward as the token working class person and get invited to lots of parties. Hireapoorperson . By the way, did anyone see the programme about William Tyndale last night, explaining how he translated the bible into language that the man on the street could understand?

Bacteria communicate and increase their populations by quorum sensing.

I remember an article by Will Self (I think it was) in which he moaned that when he attended a friend's party, there was a suitable racial and ethnic mix of guests, but the working class was severely under-represented.
Modern tribalism in North London?

Only social animals fight for survival in groups. We are social animals. Tigers aren't. Neither are polar bears. I doubt if all viruses work in groups. Butterflies? Spiders? Trees?

Does anyone know if there are more non-social species than social ones?

Other examples of social species are ants and honey bees.

I'm sure that's right, aka, but it would be nice to think that with intelligence and consideration, we could move on a bit from the way behaving like bands of aggressive apes. Actually, I think we have. We still have some way to go though.

And that is the point of the quote, as I see it. The TeapotAtheist has turned the "love thy neighbour" injunction around to look at it another way. Either way, the message is essentially the same.

I agree aka - all organisms (from viruses to humans) are programmed to fight for survival, and they group together in clusters (tribes) that provide the best opportunity for defending their survival. 'Twas ever thus. That sadly is how the world has been organised and we have lived with the misery of that fact since the dawn of time.

Strange way to organise the world - but not of our doing.

Interesting concept Aka.

I wonder if this tribalism, which today still manifests itself in everything from religions to street gangs is a genetic predisposition? To survive we, mankind, had to form groups bigger than the family unit.

I wouldn't necessarily put criticism in the same category as enmity, though it can be.

I agree, jane, that there are enemies of freedom, and of freedom of speech, but I didn't interpret the Tpot remark as referring to those modern people or groups. I don't think the Bible reference is to such groups either, but about the primitive tribalism that was still driving ideas when it was written. However, it's still relevant.

Such tribalism still exists, and I think it is related to racism, and to fear of change. It's quite hard to find properly educated people who are racist, though I daresay there are some. I hope the progress continues.

I think I see where you're coming from Bags with the Teapot Atheist. It's almost a paranoia but on both sides.

I think it's more than a bit naive to think there's no such thing as an enemy. May not have personal enemies or may not think of other individuals as enemies but there is lots of deliberate bad stuff going on. Thinking they aren't enemies isn't very realistic or sensible!

Bags Sadly I think there are enemies of freedom and pretending they are not, won't make them go away.

A nice thought, bags, but how do you avoid seeing a group as enemies when they consistently criticise you?