Is Islam a religion of love and peace?

Living memory exactly!, if we delve back deeply into history, where would you stop? every invading force, The Romans, Genghis Khan, the Mongolian hordes, the Vikings. All would have been responsible for subjugation of the indigenous populations, executions and slavery that was the nature of a conquering force. Masses of people suffered all the time, I don't see anyone on this thread denying those horrors whether they were at the hands of Christians, colonialists, or saying the lives of whoever those people were didn't matter, or whether they believe invaders, Christian or otherwise, had righteousness or God on their side. Events such as the Crusades were just too steeped in the mists of time to create a strong emotional connection.

Recent history has a resonance. Posters have been talking about pretty up to date events, for example those who suffered when Isis set up their de facto headquarters in Raqqah, Iraq and used barbaric methods of torture and execution, the very terrors that belonged to those bygone eras. Every genocide that has happened in the 20th century numerous, the slaughter of Armenians by Turks in the early part of the last century. The Holocaust, Pol Pot in Cambodia, the mass killings of those by Stalin and Mao, Rwanda, Bosnia. Not to mention what's going on right now, the mass murders of young people in Iran just one example.

That’s the way I see it. Spreading the discussion out to all other religions prevents depth of discussion of the original question.

That was a reply to Oreo

👍🏻

It is just my opinion, am not clued up on philosophical reasons for broadening a discussion, but I feel it is much better to have a balanced and more nuanced discussion that doesn’t seem to just target one kind of religious extremism.
The fact is that none of it is to do with religion at all but politics. In Iran. In Israel. In the US. Lots of very angry people full of hate intent upon division and destruction in order to rule by fear.
I doubt that God has a look in.
So is Islam a religion of peace and love?
It probably is for the ordinary law abiding Muslims around the world, but extremists only want to twist and poison that message in order to spread hatred and fear.
Am sure this won’t by any means satisfy some on this thread, but it is my opinion, it may not be right but by the same token it may not be wrong, and perhaps there is somewhere in the middle where we probably agree on more than we disagree about.

fallingstar that was a good post👍🏽

Lathyrus3

That’s the way I see it. Spreading the discussion out to all other religions prevents depth of discussion of the original question.

I'm sorry, I must be missing something here. Many discussions on line and in the real world broaden out and then may narrow back ( for want of a better way of putting it)

Personally I wouldn't feel able to contribute to an in depth discussion on Islam as this is not familiar to me culturally. Nor have I studied Islam in any depth.
But I am eager to hear from those who know more.

For me it's all about control, whether it relates to a patriarchal theocracy or a totalitarian regime of either the far right or far left persuasion. A complete subjugation of the masses. Theocracies are just as awful as any other ideology they rule by fear. The iron grip of churches has pretty much been broken, now swathes of them have fallen into disrepute and we have the freedom to cherry pick what we find acceptable.

Well you won’t find much information on Islam on this thread sixsndahalf.

I’ve scrolled back through the current postings and the vast majority are about other religions, predominantly Christianity.

It’s not really a wide discussion at all.
More a “not’s let talk about that !”

I think there was only one comment on the content of Skye’s informative posts.

Lathyrus3 I think that sixandahalf is saying that we need input from someone who actually knows about Islam, I don’t, and am pretty sure that you don’t either, so is a discussion based upon assumptions and preconceptions. Would welcome input from any Muslim members who can offer much more than just conjecture.

Skye17 quoted passages of the Q'uran very clearly way upthread.

I don't know what more information is needed other than to read those teachings to gain a clearer knowledge of the Islamic belief system.

Oh no Nannee. There’s lots more to find out than that.

That’s why this thread is such a disappointment.

Nannee49

Skye17 quoted passages of the Q'uran very clearly way upthread.

I don't know what more information is needed other than to read those teachings to gain a clearer knowledge of the Islamic belief system.

It would be difficult for Christian to understand the scriptures in the Quran unless you are a non Muslim but have studied the book.

Why would it be difficult to understand petra if approached with a certain amount of intelligence and an open mind regardless of your own belief system? And why bring Christianity into the mix again?

I think a practising Muslim who has studied the Quran will know a tad more than any of us, and is supremely arrogant to suppose that anything else could be true.
Would be like a Muslim supposing they know all about Christianity and the Bible simply because he/she knows a couple of chapters from one gospel but nothing else.
A little knowledge of anything is a dangerous thing.
I for one would not suppose to know the least thing about Islam but I do know Muslims who have lived alongside us for years and they are much the same as us. I have never known an Islamic extremist and have no wish to, nor I suppose do our Muslim neighbours.

I am reluctant to discuss Islam because my knowledge is very limited but I feel I have to set the record straight.

^Skye17
3. Jihad
Those who die in jihad [‘a struggle or fight against the enemies of Islam’] are assured of salvation. (Many interpret this to include dying in terrorist acts.)
- Sura 61.10-12, Sura 4.74^

Yes, jihad means struggle and fight but it is more to do with one’s own internal struggle fighting against temptation. Not fighting against the enemies of Islam.

The verse 4:74 is related to an actual battle where a high number of Muslims were killed. So, the ‘enemies of Islam’ refers to whichever group of people who wanted the Prophet Mohammad and his followers dead at that time.

As far as I know no one else is assured of salvation in Islam. Mohammed said that he was not certain of it. So if a young man feels he has led a sinful life and is unlikely to be able to do enough good deeds to outweigh his sins, the only way he can certainly avoid hell according to Islam is by taking part in jihad.

I have absolutely no idea what this is all about. Pure fabrication. Total BS.

Muslims, including young Muslim men are encouraged to follow the 5 pillars of Islam which include:

1) Believe in one God
2) Daily prayers
3) Fasting during Ramadan
4) Zakat – giving money to Charity
5) Pilgrimage to Mecca. Once in one’s lifetime if you can afford it.

I am not offended when people discussed radical Islam. I am aware that there are extreme Sunni movements such as the Salafism in Aceh, Indonesia and Wahhabism originating from Saudi Arabia.

Thanks SporeRB01

Extremists interpret the Quaran to suit their own agenda and it’s the extremists that the world has a problem with.

I agree Oreo Islamic extremists are the real problem. But I think this was not the case many decades ago. I lived in Lancashire where there is a large Pakistani presence due to their labour being needed in the mills back in the 60s/70s. Nobody referred to their religion and if disparaging remarks were made about them it was a shortened version of their nationality. Nobody feared Islam despite many Muslims living among us, and not just in Lancashire. It really only became a thing after conflicts in the ME politicised Islam, and the of course Reagan funded Islamic militias to fight the Soviets in the region. Am not saying western governments caused it but their interference didn’t help.
Like I have said I don’t know much about Islam but do know a thing or two about geopolitics, and whilst not all Islamic extremism is down to this I believe it does fuel it.

This is basically why I am not religious. Religions are far too easily used to mask political agendas.

Nannee49

Why would it be difficult to understand petra if approached with a certain amount of intelligence and an open mind regardless of your own belief system? And why bring Christianity into the mix again?

I used the word loosely. I assumed that would be understood.
Obviously not.

Only one higher power. All religions recognise that, others do bad things under the cover of faith but of course their actions make liars of them.

SporeRB01

I am reluctant to discuss Islam because my knowledge is very limited but I feel I have to set the record straight.

^Skye17
3. Jihad
Those who die in jihad [‘a struggle or fight against the enemies of Islam’] are assured of salvation. (Many interpret this to include dying in terrorist acts.)
- Sura 61.10-12, Sura 4.74^

Yes, jihad means struggle and fight but it is more to do with one’s own internal struggle fighting against temptation. Not fighting against the enemies of Islam.

The verse 4:74 is related to an actual battle where a high number of Muslims were killed. So, the ‘enemies of Islam’ refers to whichever group of people who wanted the Prophet Mohammad and his followers dead at that time.

As far as I know no one else is assured of salvation in Islam. Mohammed said that he was not certain of it. So if a young man feels he has led a sinful life and is unlikely to be able to do enough good deeds to outweigh his sins, the only way he can certainly avoid hell according to Islam is by taking part in jihad.

I have absolutely no idea what this is all about. Pure fabrication. Total BS.

Muslims, including young Muslim men are encouraged to follow the 5 pillars of Islam which include:

1) Believe in one God
2) Daily prayers
3) Fasting during Ramadan
4) Zakat – giving money to Charity
5) Pilgrimage to Mecca. Once in one’s lifetime if you can afford it.

I am not offended when people discussed radical Islam. I am aware that there are extreme Sunni movements such as the Salafism in Aceh, Indonesia and Wahhabism originating from Saudi Arabia.

1.
jihad means struggle and fight but it is more to do with one’s own internal struggle fighting against temptation. Not fighting against the enemies of Islam.

This is a quotation from Dan Burmawi, a ex-Muslim born in Jordan who has written three books including Islam, Israel and the West (https://amzn.eu/d/09TP5CgW):

//The word jihad appears 199 times in the two main Islamic hadith books; every single instance refers to warfare, not inner moral conflict. ...

The idea of jihad as a personal, internal struggle comes from a single hadith that has been debunked by major Islamic scholars.

It does not appear in any of the six canonical hadith collections (Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah).//

2.
The verse 4:74 is related to an actual battle where a high number of Muslims were killed. So, the ‘enemies of Islam’ refers to whichever group of people who wanted the Prophet Mohammad and his followers dead at that time.

I have read all through Sura 4. There is nothing in it about a specific battle. The instruction in verse 74 looks like a general instruction, as does the verse after it.

//74 Let those who would sacrifice this life for the Hereafter fight in the cause of Allah. And whoever fights in Allah’s cause—whether they achieve martyrdom or victory—We will honour them with a great reward.

75 Believers fight for the cause of Allah, whereas disbelievers fight for the cause of the Devil.//

Sura 61.10-12 says:

//O believers! Shall I guide you to an exchange that will save you from a painful punishment?

It is to have faith in Allah and His Messenger, and strive in the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. …

He will forgive your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and ˹house you in˺ splendid homes in the Gardens of Eternity.//

Sura 9.41 says:

//O believers!˺ March forth whether it is easy or difficult for you, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the cause of Allah.//

What does ‘March forth’ mean? We can see that from an earlier verse in the same chapter:

//29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture [Jews and Christians], until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled.//

This was not just a matter of self-defence.

3.
I have absolutely no idea what this is all about. Pure fabrication. Total BS.

It is clear that giving your life in the cause of Allah is thought to lead to guaranteed salvation (see Sura 4.74 and Sura 61.10-12, above, and other passages). According to Dr David Wood, an expert in Islam, this is the only thing that does lead to guaranteed salvation.

In Sura 46.9, Allah tells Mohammed:

//Say, 'I am not different from the other messengers; and I do not know what will be done with me, or with you.//

I e, Mohammed did not know whether he would be saved.

Islam divides the world into the House of Islam and the House of War. The House of Islam is where Islam rules.

//The outside world, which has not yet been subjugated, is called the "House of War," and strictly speaking a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war, is imposed by the law.//
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/islam-rsquo-s-house-of-islam-and-house-of-war

So fighting in the cause of Allah includes extending the rule of Islam, by whatever means.

If a young man has led a sinful life and feels he has no chance of achieving salvation through his future life, dying in jihad may seem to him like his only chance of not going to hell.

Greatnan

Come on, Lilygran - do give us the benefit of your thoughts - otherwise, why bother posting? We are not mind readers!

Posting or not posting Greatnan? Well, it's a free country after all.

Isn't it?

Quotes are just that quotes.
The Bible may also be quoted to prove a point, but also to misrepresent.
I know very little about Islam, but do come across a lot of Islamophobia.
Sorry if this discussion disappoints some Posters, and does not reach their standard of discussion, but you did chose to use Gransnet, which is an open forum.