Is Islam a religion of love and peace?

No - it has been widened to suggest that all religions have a paternalistic structure.

Threads always wander and widen

Well snd there we are.

A discussion on Islam has been shut down and has been determinedly been converted into a condemnation of Christianity.

Not unexpected somehow.

This is a circular argument.

No-one on this thread has said that non Christian or non European or non Anything lives matter less in the murderous history of all religions, it's not top trumps on the atrocities of the past and it muddies the waters of discussion.

It isn't rascist - the word bandied about so often to close opinions down - to question beliefs.

Why study Theology?

What do the Bishops and Imams and Rabbis and other religious leaders actually discuss when they come together I wonder.

And BlessedArt

Yes we know we are all racist.

Well said Fallingstar.

Downplaying the tens of millions of Africans, Indigenous Americans & Australians, Asians etc who were murdered as a direct result of Christianity makes one a racist. Their violent deaths matter as much as any European’s death. The deaths as a direct result of far-right Zionists matter. The Crusades alone, those wars that Christian Europeans left their continent to wage in the homelands of others, matter. You can only claim Christianity is not as bad if you devalue those lives. I don’t care who thinks what “works anymore” or doesn’t or what that even means. I’m calling it for what it is. You what also doesn’t work anymore? Being afraid to call racism out because some people want to make it less acceptable to acknowledge it than actually being racist. Those days are dead.

As somebody who is Jewish but not practising, in fact not really religious at all, I believe in God but a non religious one shall I say, I am lucky enough to live in London where faith leaders often come together, indeed Rabbis and Imams often appear together and call for peace and calm when the occasion demands it and there are open days at synagogues and mosques for schoolchildren and members of the public.
With relatives in Israel I can assure everyone that many Israelis condemn and protest against the far right war mongers in the Knesset, which again is a good example of extremism.
Instead of causing division and stirring up hatred we should seek ways to bring people together and by doing this will realise that they have much more in common than we think.

Yeah we are all racist. Does anyone think that works anymore.

Anyone who downplays how many millions of people were murdered across generations directly due to Christianity or Islam is either racist or willfully ignores history.

And I would like to add it is no coincidence that where the Christian right - notably in the USA, there is a move to reduce women’s rights.

As a humanist I always had an historic overview of the worlds religions.

All the major religions have a patriarchy structure, evidenced by lack of female autonomy, violence and unequal rights.

Women have historically and still are limited to access of leadership, have strict social codes, including dress codes, which are used to justify subordination of women.

In the Christian, Islam and Jewish religion, Eve has traditionally been blamed for the fall of man, and thus become the template for viewing women as at the best inferior, and at worse evil - witches were killed by the hundreds.

Where women have struggled and won a degree of freedom, it has been done so not as a result of greater religious freedom at the outset, but initially in the social/political world, which in turn penetrated the seat of the religion.
It is no coincidence that where liberal democracy persists, womens rights have been more easily won.

Conversely in countries that are not democratic, we find the suppression of women’s right alive and kicking.

The only exception are the two socialist countries, Russia where female equality has been deeply embedded is the socialist system, and China where women’s equality has been actively pursued by the Chinese government in a traditionally heavily patriarchal society.

I guess it’s almost impossible to have a discussion about the tenets of a faith in a dispassionate way.

It's mystifying why people can't separate the tenets of the faith which is what is being discussed from the followers who may or may not accept them all.

Yet some of those same people have no problem telling us they can separate out Israel from Israelis and Jews, and to condemn the former is not to condemn the latter.

I guess it’s almost impossible to have a discussion about the tenets of a faith in a dispassionate way.

People always veer off into their own personal experiences and preferences/prejudices and reduce the discussion to what they personally feel.

Thank you Newatthis and Fallingstar.
....just so.

I think the awful things that Islamic extremists say and do cannot be ignored but do let’s remember that many Muslims, as in Iran, are fighting tooth and nail against this.
It is not how the majority of Muslims want to live.
Extremists might want a caliphate but is just a lot of BS because the majority don’t want a bar of it.
But making it sound as if Islamic extremists are on every street corner does make for good copy and there is one born every minute who will believe this.

Newatthis

I lived in the Middle East for many years and I found the majority of the people were kind, generous and deeply religious and respectful of other faiths. It’s the minority just as it cannot be said that all catholic priests and clergy are paedophiles and all Americans shoot up schools etc.etc. Anyone who thinks differently needs educating.

Are people saying otherwise? I thought the context of this thread was examining the written tenets of Islam, some of which decidedly do not fall under 'love and peace'. What do you think about the instruction that it's fine to rape certain women? Or that apostates should be killed?

I lived in the Middle East for many years and I found the majority of the people were kind, generous and deeply religious and respectful of other faiths. It’s the minority just as it cannot be said that all catholic priests and clergy are paedophiles and all Americans shoot up schools etc.etc. Anyone who thinks differently needs educating.

serves as a smokescreen

What I find strange us the compulsion to refer to other religions, which incidentally seems almost exclusively one-sided in its defence of Islam.

So a post querying a basic tenet of Islam is immediately met with “Christianity is just as bad” whereas a query about Christianity will very rarely if ever be met with the immediate rejoinder of “Islam is just as bad”.

If a belief system, it’s practice and outcomes are to be evaluated dispassionately then it must be on its own basis. Reference to other religions, specially historically, simply obscures the current reality of the religion being discussed and smoky serves as a distraction or a deliberate smokescreen.

I spent a year exploring different religions to see if I could find one to which I could adhere. Comparisons were futile. Each one needed to evaluated on its own merits and shortcomings.

The Islamic worldview is unique in itself as is its moral code.

Those that keep saying all religions are the same etc etc please link to the laws/commandments or other teachings for followers of other religions that state the same as those of Islam. As I said upthread confusing the bad behaviour of people who self identify into a religion with the 'instructions' of that religion is illogical. Nowhere, as far as I'm aware, is rape condoned nay encouraged in the teachings of any other religion, just as one example.
Historical atrocities cannot be used to excuse current atrocities or where does it all end?

Not to mention that some young men who became terrorists were influenced by radical Imams. Are there any such equivalent priests, rabbis who would stand up in a pulpit today to advocate acts of violence towards those who are not of their faith?

Yes it's the right now!

Show me another religion that advocates all of the examples set out, stoning, burning people, raping, justified murder against infidels, apostates. We're not talking the Middle Ages here. Even Ian Paisley in his hate filled rants didn't suggest those extremes.

fancythat

^But they are all much the same if you look at how they have behaved/changed throughout history.^

And right now?

And right now it’s Islamist extremism as they want a caliphate.

Whitewavemark2

Diabolical things have been done in the name of all the worlds religions.

There is nothing to choose between them in the peace stakes.

There are of course cults/off shoots that are more warlike/peaceful than others.

But they are all much the same if you look at how they have behaved/changed throughout history.

In the main, most religions do not advocate extremist views now but some Islamists still do so and become violent extremists.