DIL here, perspective please with strained relationship with MIL.

Luckygirl3

A bit of me feels that the OP is a young woman who wants to dictate to those around her how they should be as people. But the reality of life is that we need to rub along with all those in our orbit as best we can, particularly family.

MIL's request to see her GC once a week is not excessive; and her envy of the "other" grandma is understandable because it is founded in fact. She too is excited by the arrival of the next generation.

Your MIL will be who she is because of the life experiences that have shaped her; just as you OP are who you are for the same reasons. I am sure that neither of you is perfect - her fault is (by your description) to be "passive-aggressive" (the latest buzz word along with narcissistic)
and yours would appear to be (by your descriptions of what you have said and done) wanting to control people to live up to your expectations and wishes, even to the point of sitting them down and listing their faults. I do not see this as normal or even acceptable behaviour - it is certainly unkind.

I spent a large part of my career as a social worker and the first thing I would ask when I encountered a difficult client was to ask myself what had shaped them, what had made them this way, and to use that understanding to in turn shape my dealings with them.

Your MIL comes pretty low on the scale of being difficult, believe me! She is no doubt not perfect, but none are any of us. What will you do when your son proves to be imperfect? .... banish him, or try to understand where he is coming from?

I think this misunderstands my position. I’m not trying to dictate who anyone should be, I’m addressing behaviour that has caused hurt and saying I can’t continue. That isn’t control, and it isn’t unkind. It’s honesty.

Understanding why someone behaves the way they do can create empathy, but it doesn’t mean accepting behaviour that has a negative impact. Explaining that impact isn’t the same as attacking someone’s character.

As for my son, of course he won’t be perfect. Loving someone doesn’t mean tolerating harmful behaviour without limits, it means teaching accountability as well as compassion. Boundaries are part of healthy relationships.

Norah

OP stated MIL Refused to come to our housewarming party because she didnt like we had moved out of town 1hr away.

Obviously too far for popping in.

People at a distance typically visit family less.

I had London GPs and next door GP, guess who I saw daily whilst a child? I loved all my GPs, neither saw visits as a competition.

Same, my mums mum i saw multiple times per week, my dads mum not as often and more ‘scheduled’ but i loved them both equally, the relationship dynamic was just different.

I think at this stage you too must "acknowledge the impact of your actions." You cannot sit someone down and list their faults and expect there to be no impact.

Newatthis

This is my story ,completely identical! Things were fine at first until we announced our engagement and then things got steadily worse for many, many years. She didn't want to know any of our wedding arrangements, she was never happy for us, even when we announced we were going to have a baby (her first grandchild). She was so jealous of everything - visits to my family, (even when my mum wanted to hold our baby at the christening) , whenever we bought anything new for the house - anything. We too fell out and didn't see her for 2 years. She made life very miserable for us, causing lots of arguments between my husband and myself, as he too would not speak up. It wasn't until the last five years of her life that she seem to accept me. I truly have never forgiven her for causing so much unhappiness, even though she is no longer with us. Fortunately, we spent most of our married life living far away, although that meant she would come and visit for a fortnight!! I could write volumes. Jealousy, Jealousy, Jealousy - that is all I can say. I empathise with you.

Sounds very familiar. And i think thats where im at, whilst i think i can eventually move past this for the sake of my husband and our son, i will never forgive her. Life events like wedding days, new home, first baby are supposed to be cherished memories and whilst they still are, she has stained them. Ill forget eventually, but never forgive.

Just sat down and read the recent comments, so a few clarifications.

There are several reasons we haven’t seen them in the past four months. First, my husband isn’t particularly proactive, and as I’ve already said, I was the one who facilitated contact and visits before the baby arrived. Since then, my MIL has apparently had nothing to say to me. Our weekends are busy, and with travel time it takes the best part of a day to visit them. While it could have been arranged, my husband hasn’t expressed a desire to do so, and I’ve consciously stepped back. He is still in contact by text, but he is also at his wits’ end with how his mother has behaved. But it is ‘his mother’ and i get that.

For context, my mum lives five minutes away and is retired. My MIL lives an hour away and works full time. The situations aren’t comparable. A baby is not a toy to be shared equally.

To those saying I was wrong to explain to my MIL the hurt her behaviour caused… if someone isn’t willing to acknowledge the impact of their actions, then the issue isn’t the explanation, it’s the behaviour itself. That conversation came from a place of wanting resolution, not conflict. I physically and mentally cannot continue to tolerate it. Am I expected to simply put up with it indefinitely? If there is any scope for reconciliation, then at least everything has been said clearly and she knows the limit with me. I’m not prepared to stay silent for the sake of keeping the peace.

You won't get an apology because she doesn't think she's done anything wrong.

You've not lied about anything just stated how she's behaved, what she's said and how it made you feel, especially postpartum.
This will feel like an attack to her.

You've tried to sit down and talk it out but you can't move on without her acknowledging her behaviour, which she won't do so just draw a line and let her.

Let your husband deal with it. You won't get the apology you want, chalk it up to what it is and move on. I'm 17+ years down the line.
It's honestly not worth it. It's not your responsibility to maintain a relationship who disrespects you.

OP stated MIL Refused to come to our housewarming party because she didnt like we had moved out of town 1hr away.

Obviously too far for popping in.

People at a distance typically visit family less.

I had London GPs and next door GP, guess who I saw daily whilst a child? I loved all my GPs, neither saw visits as a competition.

petra

Rosie51

I wonder how often Surreysister's mum gets to see the baby, she has said it's a lot more than the in-laws even before this flared up.

As the in-laws live 2 hrs drive away and the OPs mother lives near, I expect she sees the baby more than the in laws.
Obvious really 🤷‍♀️

I don't think the OP said her in-laws live two hours away did she? In her opening post she says they only stayed for a couple of hours when visiting the in-laws because of factoring in travel time and the baby's feeds and naps.
Obviously if her own parents live very close by it is easier to visit but the OP is saying thy can't spare the time for the in-laws to visit in their busy lives, but apparently they can for her family.

Rosie51

I wonder how often Surreysister's mum gets to see the baby, she has said it's a lot more than the in-laws even before this flared up.

As the in-laws live 2 hrs drive away and the OPs mother lives near, I expect she sees the baby more than the in laws.
Obvious really 🤷‍♀️

This is my story ,completely identical! Things were fine at first until we announced our engagement and then things got steadily worse for many, many years. She didn't want to know any of our wedding arrangements, she was never happy for us, even when we announced we were going to have a baby (her first grandchild). She was so jealous of everything - visits to my family, (even when my mum wanted to hold our baby at the christening) , whenever we bought anything new for the house - anything. We too fell out and didn't see her for 2 years. She made life very miserable for us, causing lots of arguments between my husband and myself, as he too would not speak up. It wasn't until the last five years of her life that she seem to accept me. I truly have never forgiven her for causing so much unhappiness, even though she is no longer with us. Fortunately, we spent most of our married life living far away, although that meant she would come and visit for a fortnight!! I could write volumes. Jealousy, Jealousy, Jealousy - that is all I can say. I empathise with you.

I agree with Luckygirl3 as well.
We cannot and should not expect everyone to fit our idea of what they should be like.
I can’t help wondering what the MiL’s post would look like if she came on here. Maybe with a headline ‘My DiL listed how bad I am in front of my son and husband, I feel so humiliated’.
I mean how must the MiL be feeling now?
Whatever she did wrong in the OPs opinion I am really struggling with the whole sitting her down and listing how awful she has been chronologically. Is harsh. And as Luckygirl says what happens if her son doesn’t meet her expectations or her DH?
Family counselling would have been kinder.

You obviously dislike your MIL, I feel sorry for her. They have reached out to move on. Be an adult and accept the olive branch. You are the problem not her. Accept that people are all different and react in different ways...not everyone can be like you. Please show some compassion

I wonder how often Surreysister's mum gets to see the baby, she has said it's a lot more than the in-laws even before this flared up.

Agree with Lemonjam and Norah.

I also agree that it was a pretty bad idea to think sitting down with anyone to list all your grievances against them was going to end well. You could be 100% justified in feeling aggrieved. All the more reason to shy away from thinking that “talk” would have helped. Most would get defensive. A passive aggressive person used to getting her way all the time was never going to apologize, and throwing your FIL and husband under the bus was immature. If you didn’t address incidents in the moment like an adult, your built up resentment is your own responsibility. Communicate as issues come up and move on with your life. Trust me, life is too short to allow resentment to fester. Your MIL is used to her son and husband letting her rule the roost. It will be a hard adjustment for her to not get her way all the time. I’m not saying this for you to have sympathy for her, but for you to accept that she is who she is. You can maintain your boundaries and accept that she will only be who she is, or you can be just as stubborn as her and wait for the apology that will never come and keep the tension. The choice is yours.

I also think that anyone giving you a hard time for not taking on the responsibility to facilitate time with your in laws doesn’t understand modern family life. Mothers work, fathers work. Mothers parent, fathers parent. The inherent sexism being displayed against you for your husband’s failing to facilitate contact with his own parents is shameful. Once a week visits for a household with two working parents is frequent, especially when there is tension. Your husband should step up and take the baby over, or at least stop cowering behind this tiff. If he doesn’t want to see his mum so often he needs to man-up and say so to her. This is his family. He needs to deal with this like an adult.

My advice is simple: let it go. Life is too short. You don’t have to be close with her. You don’t have to spend any time with her without the other family members’ presence. Keep it surface level, keep it cordial. Let your husband take the lead with contact. But do let go of the animosity. It’s better for everyone, especially the baby who is loved by all. Even if she did give a phony apology, it won’t change her feelings. So draw that line under the incident and maintain your boundaries with grace.

could NOT accommodate her brother siblings so grew up apart from them....

My MIL could be challenging/difficult on occasion yet in fairness in reverse so could my Mum as a MIL. The MIL dynamic is not always easy for them either, as you may come to learn years down the line.....

I used to try and understand my mother's behaviour when growing up as a child. My Dad used to tell me that it was because she was evacuated as a small child for the duration of WW2. She did not have a happy experience, was expected to "earn her keep" and generally "be a skivvy" to her 2 respective families- who didnt want her but were were conscripted to take in etc.but could to accommodate her siblings. She consequently had views and expectations on how to bring up a daughter that she did not have for my brother, (very unequal I inwardly raged at the time) seemed very different to my friend's mothers and was never known to hug or show any affection on any occasion to her children or husband. Ex MIL was orphaned - at a young age also war related- both her parents died - and from a young age was therefore farmed out in turns to much older, adult brothers and sisters whose partners were not always supportive. She also had her seemingly peculiar (to me initially) ways which I tried to see in light of her upbringing experiences. Both caused friction- both were jealous if the other GP had more access to GC etc- both were difficult to please.

Luckygirl makes a valid and helpful comment as an experienced SW; "I spent a large part of my career as a social worker and the first thing I would ask when I encountered a difficult client was to ask myself what had shaped them, what had made them this way, and to use that understanding to in turn shape my dealings with them."

To be able to do this, even on occasion- and in reverse MIL to DIL - always helps. It is for your H to have conversations with your MIL to help her in this approach, if at all possible. You can consider, if and when you feel ready for reconciliation.

Why are some posters blaming the OP for the ILs not being able to see the gc if the father of the child is currently talking to them?

Am i missing anything?

Op

Your ILs not apologizing is a red flag.
What makes you think their bad behaviour will stop?
Talking bad behing your back is not cool.
Dont let them sweep it under the rug

Surreysister1466 Yes i agree, at this moment in time its the best way forward and thats what is happening. We saw them maybe every 2 months, where funnily enough i would encourage husband to invite them over and i would cook for them.

theworriedwell OP says she's supporting MIL seeing the baby but it hasn't happened for four months.

OP told us she hasn't seen MIL for 4 months. It seems they're in a rough patch, tempers flared. Time to calmly reset.

She also told us she finds it acceptable if her husband takes their baby to visit his parents. Husband's normal is every 2 month visits. He has missed one visit to his parents if I count correctly.

Husband is in control of his family visits - perhaps he should take the baby round to his parent for an hour or so, soon? If he wishes.

Luckygirl3

A bit of me feels that the OP is a young woman who wants to dictate to those around her how they should be as people. But the reality of life is that we need to rub along with all those in our orbit as best we can, particularly family.

MIL's request to see her GC once a week is not excessive; and her envy of the "other" grandma is understandable because it is founded in fact. She too is excited by the arrival of the next generation.

Your MIL will be who she is because of the life experiences that have shaped her; just as you OP are who you are for the same reasons. I am sure that neither of you is perfect - her fault is (by your description) to be "passive-aggressive" (the latest buzz word along with narcissistic)
and yours would appear to be (by your descriptions of what you have said and done) wanting to control people to live up to your expectations and wishes, even to the point of sitting them down and listing their faults. I do not see this as normal or even acceptable behaviour - it is certainly unkind.

I spent a large part of my career as a social worker and the first thing I would ask when I encountered a difficult client was to ask myself what had shaped them, what had made them this way, and to use that understanding to in turn shape my dealings with them.

Your MIL comes pretty low on the scale of being difficult, believe me! She is no doubt not perfect, but none are any of us. What will you do when your son proves to be imperfect? .... banish him, or try to understand where he is coming from?

Brilliant comments

I was just coming on to point out the original post says
This was around four months ago. I haven’t spoken to them since and they haven’t seen our son, husband has kept in contact.

I'm with Doodledog who I think has summed up the situation well in her posts. Surreysister would do well to consider how going forward to when she likely will have a grandchild she would feel about the other gran being prioritised over her because she is only the paternal grandparent. Her future d-i-l might well sum her up as 'difficult and far too blunt, calls it telling it how it is'.

Theworriedwell 12.28- ive just reread the original post and youre right. The context of my posts re MIL seeing GC made in context of further posts from OP I read yesterday:

Surreysister 17.52: "Im fine with my husband taking our son but this arrangement ultimately means visits will be less frequent"

Surreysister18.34 : "And excluded means fully barred her from seeing our son, which i haven’t? Please elaborate".

Surreysister help us out as I am now confused- you said yesterday you fine with H taking you son to visit his GPs and that you have not barred MIL from seeing your son.

So what actually is happening following the talk 4 months ago? Ie how often has your H visited his parents and why hasn't he taken your son with him to maintain GC/GP contact as your position is you are fine with him taking your son with him?

A bit of me feels that the OP is a young woman who wants to dictate to those around her how they should be as people. But the reality of life is that we need to rub along with all those in our orbit as best we can, particularly family.

MIL's request to see her GC once a week is not excessive; and her envy of the "other" grandma is understandable because it is founded in fact. She too is excited by the arrival of the next generation.

Your MIL will be who she is because of the life experiences that have shaped her; just as you OP are who you are for the same reasons. I am sure that neither of you is perfect - her fault is (by your description) to be "passive-aggressive" (the latest buzz word along with narcissistic)
and yours would appear to be (by your descriptions of what you have said and done) wanting to control people to live up to your expectations and wishes, even to the point of sitting them down and listing their faults. I do not see this as normal or even acceptable behaviour - it is certainly unkind.

I spent a large part of my career as a social worker and the first thing I would ask when I encountered a difficult client was to ask myself what had shaped them, what had made them this way, and to use that understanding to in turn shape my dealings with them.

Your MIL comes pretty low on the scale of being difficult, believe me! She is no doubt not perfect, but none are any of us. What will you do when your son proves to be imperfect? .... banish him, or try to understand where he is coming from?

It seems to me that you have inadvertently throw your FIL under the bus by relaying to your MIL what your FIL told your H in confidence; that your MIL is jealous.

So, it is not surprising that your FIL has done a 360 degree and defended her in your sit down conversations.

Your MIL behaviours indicate she is a passive aggressive woman. Passive aggressive person is someone who has difficultly communicating her emotions openly. Expecting her to admit her mistakes and apologise to you openly, well, that is never going to happen unless she went to therapy and change her behaviour.

Continue with what you re doing, letting your husband take your baby to see her on his own.

As far as I know, my DD gets on well with her partner’s mother. She is very friendly like me and goes to church every Sunday.

My family and extended family living overseas are Asians, so my DD and her partner must navigate family from different race, culture and religion to themselves.

Howe sad for both GM and GC that there has been no contact for 4 months.

LemonJam

eazybee- but grandmother has not had access to her grandchildren "severely restricted" as you state.

MIL took it upon herself from birth to dictate frequency of visits, ie once a week when GS was first born- somewhat overbearing, demanding and not sustainable as they live a couple of hours apart. When poster's husband went back to work she was finding once a week visits too much- entirely understandable. It is entirely acceptable for son and DIL to decide frequency of visits to their own home, ie a frequency in their family's best interests. Poster and husband together decided their own ground rules- healthy and acceptable behaviour.

Grandson is now 1- 4 months ago there was the "conversation' with MIL that led to hurt feelings, clearly on both sides. During that 4 months the poster supports her husband visiting his parents taking GC with him- so contact with GPs continues. Very unfair therefore to say access has been "severely restricted" plus inferring that poster is to blame for that. Father of GC works full time, thus has limited free time, is an adult and can decide for himself how often he visits his parents.

Currently poster is dealing with her hurt feelings and asks for perspectives which she is getting. Responses and perspectives vary a great deal- not a surprise the MIL/DIL can de difficult and shifts when a new GC is born and at a time mother of said GC is adjusting to motherhood, all that entails and possible hormonal/ post natal changes. Poster has said she may wish to reconcile in the future but not right at the moment.

Yes of course there are 2 sides to the story- as always- I'm sure even the poster is aware of that. But like all posters she is entitled to post the situation from her understanding and perspective. She has asked for our perspective. If you disagree with her stance and feel that you are on MIL's "side" you are forming that view without having heard from MIL either, which we are not going to get. Relationship repair/reconciliation doesn't depend on "taking sides" but trying to develop insight and understanding, as far as possible with all parties.

By all means try and help poster see things from your different perspective, ie MIL's perspective that you can speculate on (but do not know) - poster has asked for that. I would imagine poster is more likely to take on board difficult to hear, alternative to her current understanding perspectives if they are framed in none judgmental language.

If you look at the first post it clear days MIL hasn't seen baby since the fallout four months ago. Contact between GPs and GC hasn't continued.