I have just found out I am a granny .... from a stranger.

How awful.
My mother was a narc, she died a month ago.
The relief is enormous.
The lies were unforgivable, I know she tried to ruin every good relationship I ever had.
Your mother will never change, leave the door open your daughter may see the light.
I’m sad for you.

I agree with those saying do nothing, hard though that is.

Your daughter does not want contact with you and believes she is right not to want it, so she is unlikely to welcome it.

"Coercive control is insidious and if cleverly done it is very difficult for victims to realise what is happening to them." Spot on Madgran.

Coercive control is insidious and and if cleverly done it is very difficult for victims to realise what is happening to them. One of the strongest and most "together women I have ever met and I know very well, got pulled into a coercive control relationship. She got out of it because her partner died!! If it could happen to her it could happen to anyone.

When an adult finds themselves in a coercive controlling relationship Oceanmama they can eventually become so enmeshed, that although they think they are doing so, they're no longer thinking for themselves but behaving in the way their partner wants them to behave.

The impact of coercive control in adult relationships is such, that it is now an offense under the law pertaining to domestic abuse.

The one in control is effectively a gatekeeper, as Aquamarine has said about her DIL. All abusers seek to isolate their 'victim' from those who maybe able to influence them, who may see things in the relationship that make them uncomfortable, and mention them to the 'victim'. The first ones to be cut out are usually close family, followed by close friends.

Women are not the only victims of domestic abuse, men are victims too.

i think the modern way of each partner being the one responsible for contacting their own family of origin, has much to commend it. avoiding the social secretary situation.
back to OP, it is difficult to advise without knowing what/ how your mother said to turn your daughter against you.
i think it is risky sending anything or mentioning that you know about her child, to your daughter.
as another poster said, it is significant that she did not tell you herself about it.
so she might be annoyed, feel it as intrusive if you refer to it.
is there anyone who could be a go-between.
has it been 4 yrs estrangement.
i think we need more information to understand the situation, and see if we can suggest anything else. take care.

Aquamarine, can you see that by calling your DIL the gate keeper, you are basically saying your son is incapable of making his own choices or making a choice to contact you? Think about how that sounds to your son. I once said to my husband, when my MIL said something similar, "You realise your mother is suggesting you are spineless?" Men are very capable of making their own decisions about relationships and trying to sort out difficulties, if they choose to. For my husband though, he chose the comfort of just withdrawing rather than saying to his mother, "Hey Mum, there's a problem here, can we talk about it?"

If women are forced into the role of social secretary, then I suppose they are reasonably the gate keeper of their households, especially if the husband decides to put that on her too.

I'm estranged from my only adult child and consequently my gorgeous grandchild , nearly a year now. I found out that my son had another daughter born last November, don't ask me how I've carried on with my life , everything stopped and every day I live with grief sadness loss ..... I cared for my granddaughter from the age of 7 weeks. My loss is huge , Lord knows what my granddaughter was told at the time , lies , emotional abuse.... It's shocking... My DIL the gatekeeper.
No family member has helped me , they enable the estrangement to continue....
What can I say to help you , I'm afraid not a lot , life is ... Life is unfair.....

Aww, this sounds so sad, and one of these situations where you find yourselves stuck in it, ebbing and flowing for years and years. I know how that feels. My gut reaction is to get rid of your mother for good, and focus on mending things with your daughter. You’ve been given a great chance, because you’ve been told about the baby. What a lovely place to start....a complete new beginning. My personal opinion is.....we gave, or should have given our parents so much joy, and we’re not responsible for them in any way. We are to our children though, so bite the bullet and go for it with your daughter. I wish you all the best, and congratulations for your new grandchild.

As an estranged daughter, I am not sure I would receive those flowers with the same intent they are sent.

This daughter did not tell the mother she was pregnant. That is pretty huge by itself.
The length of estrangement is also telling, it has been at least a year.

This daughter clearly doesnt want her mother in her life. Flowers will not a difference for the better.

We still dont know what the lies told by the grandmother are.

Send a large bouquet of flowers and a lovely letter saying how delighted you were to hear the news. Say how happy she must be at being a mother - just like you were when she was born, and this pleasure actually increases as time and years go by. Repeat how much you love her and ask her if there is anything at all she needs or you can do to help - allshe needs to do is to contact you and ask.

Queenie, hopefully now your daughter is now a mother she will reassess everything. Surely she has to know the real you and also her grandmother. Think Bluebells advice is spot on, send the flowers tell her you think of her everyday and love her, then take a back seat again. It must come from her.

So sorry, OP

This is why it is so important not to expose children to toxic people, especially narcs. The goal is to stop the dysfunction from moving to the next generation.

I wonder what negative effects your daughter had from growing up caught in the middle of your mother and your relationship.

What kind of lies did your mother also say about you?

Alexa of course some people mean to offend, if you didn’t read the post you really shouldn’t comment about it and you certainly shouldn’t castigate any posters who defended queenie over a nasty post

I mean nobody means to offend just for the sake of offending.

janeainsworth, I suppose I must have read this thread after Lemsip's post was deleted. Nobody means to offend.

My heart goes out to you Queenie, that must have been an awful way to find out that your daughter has become a mother.
If you don’t mind me asking, is your DD estranged from both you and your mother or is she on your mothers “side” (I couldn’t think of another way of putting that, I know it’s rather simplistic)? The reason I ask is that although it would be a lovely gesture to reach out with flowers, if DD is siding with her GM, then reaching out at this time is giving them ammunition that you’re only doing so to gain access to the new baby and furthering the “bad mum” narrative. I know this is not the case, but you say your mum is a narc - any display could be twisted to her agenda. Have you tried reaching out to DD prior to this?

Unless you've had a toxic person in your family it's hard to believe what some people will do.
And it's very hard to fight against because they will always manage to wrong foot you. They're not just nasty they are also very clever.

I'm truly sorry that your mother succeeded. Like Smileless, I would do nothing because it will just give your mother another thing to use against you. Though she'll probably also use not doing anything against you too.

You see, you just can't win with people like that. I'm so sorry ?

Lemsip’s post has been deleted now Alexa but why didn’t you read it?
If you’re going to have a go at everyone who has criticised a poster, it’s incumbent on you to at least read the post in question!

I would send her a present of flowers and a card or letter. This is what we do for anyone we care for.

Would it compound the hurt if you mentioned the baby?
Our relationships with our DC change during our lifetimes and often there is role reversal.

Your DM sounds like a very difficult person but why anyone would want to drive a wedge between a mother and her daughter, defeats me. Jealousy I suppose?

If you can hold your head up and be proud of everything you have achieved, be brave and not care about being hurt again, I would write a letter explaining the story from your point of view. No-one else can do that but you.

I did not read Lemsip's post but for goodness sake stop the opprobrium! (yes, I never in my life had the occasion to write or say that word but why not be adventurous?)
L obviously meant no harm why would she.

Shropshire Lass, you have a right to tell him you love him and want the best for him and his little family. Do please keep us in the picture as to how you are feeling and what happens.

Queenie, I wish you could find the courage to have a real fight with your mother. Also if I were your daughter I'd love to have a bunch of flowers like BlueBelle suggested and also a nice letter. I think it is time for you to express your feelings, and your feelings for your daughter and baby are all good .

I don't see my son, sadly, he lives a long way from me, and a few years ago I found out that he had 2 children. Yes, it hurt and I live in hope that one day he will have more contact but I have to accept that this is his choice. It does made me very sad.

I agree re Lemsip. I think you need to apologise to Queenie. To be honest I am glad you are not a friend of mine, Lemsip.
I agree with others to send a letter to your DD and congratulate her. Perhaps say you would like to buy GS a present and is there anything particularly that he needs. Baby steps. Hopefully eventually you will meet up with your DD and GS. Don't mention your mum to her. Just say you are sorry you have become estranged and you are desperate to put things right. Good luck. Hope things improve for you