only daughter distanced herself and tgecwholecfamily followed suit.

Let's remember something.
We know one side of the story, which has very few details.
We know more about how peony's friend feels about the CO, not what happened, what profanities the daughter said when the mother just appeared at her door, what kind of relationship they had growing up, etc.

This has been going on for a decade or more. Op's friend has been slowly and gradually pushed out for years. This indicates an ongoing and serious problem.

We cannot especulate anything about the financial situation- did the daughter demand it or the mother threw money at the problem hoping to see it gone?
Same with babysitting - did the daughter ask for it or it was the mother offering the daughter a break?

The only people with the answers to all our questions are not in this board.

OK agnurse so in relation to Peonyrose's friend was it fear, obligation or guilt that made the D use her mother as her financial support and free child care giver?

You refer to "classic sociopath behaviour" and by saying that you're not saying this is the case with this poor woman, you are suggesting that it could be. Why her? Why the mother? Why not the daughter.

The daughter who appears to have taken all that she can from her mother is a much more likely candidate for sociopath behaviour.

Yes MovingOn it is almost and IMO definitely bullying to treat your mother in the way the OP's friend has been treated.

You'll "never understand why people fight so hard to be a part of something that they are no longer wanted or needed". Of course you don't because the AC you spent your life loving and caring for hasn't told you to go away and never come back.

You've never stood on your AC's door step, broken and bewildered because they refuse to have anything to do
with you and have taken away your GC.

Like agnurse you appear to be more than happy to associate sociopath behaviour with the mother in the case rather than her D.

Although I find it increasingly irritating the way agnurseappears to always leap to the defense of the estranging AC, I kind of get it because her husband is estranged from his own father.

Why do you find it necessary?

I 100000% gree with agnurse.

It is almost bullying to treat your mom in this way

Really?

Bullying is trying to reach out to someone who has chosen to go no contact by any means possible, simply for the estranged wants a relationship that the estranged does not. Its sad that the daughter has cut her mother off, but I'll never understand why people fight so hard to be a part of something that they are no longer wanted or needed. And if she feels its bullying when why just not leave her alone and put an end to this alleged bullying?

Peonyrose, you come across as being heavily invested in this scenario, and only interested in seeing your "friends," point of view - I just hope that this is not a personal script of your own life, but in third party narration.

Its unnatural to try and subdue another into having a relationship that they don't want. Its not "bullying" if one wants to be left alone.

I'm not saying she's a sociopath but once again I agree with agnurse when she defines the classic sociopathic syndrome. You may have known your friend for 10 years but since her daughter isn't 10, she has obviously known her much much longer than you have/will ever know. I hope she gets some counseling.

And those asking why she didn't cut her mother at xy and z point other life, or with her kids - we all know that there's always that very last straw that finally breaks that's camels back. No one wakes up and decides to go NC for nothing, and most of the time NC occurs when the person estranging, finally realizes that the estranged will NEVER change.

At times peace comes with simply accepting the things that one has no control over, and that they can never Chang.

There is such a thing as the FOG - Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. People sometimes take years to come out of the FOG and realize that an individual is toxic. It's also possible that they've been conditioned socially to behave a certain way, and it can take years to get past that conditioning.

Sadly, there are people who are capable of being extremely charming to outsiders and absolute monsters at home. This is classic sociopath behaviour. I'm not saying that is what is necessarily happening here, but my point is that we can never truly know what happens behind closed doors. We received a Christmas card years ago from our former landlady who told us her husband had just filed for divorce. She said it was an abusive marriage from the beginning, you name it, he did it. We lived next door to them and had no idea what was happening.

I agree Smiless. If the AC had such big issues enough for her to wish to go no contact, why on earth would she be happy to leave her children with her mother! And is tge issues arose during the childcare being provided why didn't she cut off then!! Hmmm!

It isn't almost bullying Peonyrose it is bullying. As other posters have said, if she believed her mother to be as bad as she's now claiming, why on earth didn't she walk away years ago.

If the poor woman was good enough when she was providing free child care and financial support, she's good enough now.

Norah, her whole family is daughter, son in law and children 8 and 10. Asking for trouble by going once to ask your daughter if you cannot just try and put things right, is not asking for trouble, except perhaps in a police state. It is almost bullying to treat your mom in this way. It is not the way to behave with anyone. Even a murderer gets a trial. It is not just one sided, judging and cutting someone off without explanation is.

That the whole family is NC is telling. Two sides, maybe friend should look to the other side in the transcript. There are always two stories or more.

Going round to a home uninvited is asking for trouble.

Cuckoo22. I have just reread all the very kind replies to my post and when I saw yours I feel so sorry that your only child has estranged herself. You are on your own so do not have the emotional support of a partner or another child. Glad you have good friends there for you. When you have been a friend for decades, gone through such a lot together, you do get a very good insight into their personality. People have said there must always be something must have caused it. I dont agree with that statement. I have friends who are very interfering with their child, but not ostracised, some just need an excuse not to bother as it doesn't suit them. If my child did that to me and was cruel, no reasons given for the estrangement just say you have really hurt me but don't want to talk about it, as in my friends case. She would have to get on with it, I would be disgusted and ashamed of her. You don't treat your mother like or anyone for that matter. So I hope you are enjoying your life Cuckoo despite your daughter. Sometimes friends can be better than some family. I love my friend and she will always be part of my life.

You also say the whole family followed suit and they do not talk to the mother. Did I read that correctly?
I am afraid you are not getting the whole picture and fact, just only one side

Totally agree with this. If the entire family followed suit, then something she must have done something quite egregious.

Depends on the situation. Trespassing is a crime

It sure is, and if the police is called they won't look at it as a case of "poor old granny knocking on her daughters door," as implied by another poster. Everyone has a legal right to be left alone, and any continued contact after one going no contact is a form of harassment.

Did she not tell you what exactly happened that led to her daughter and the entire family cutting her off?

What a totally ridiculous situation to get into!

Depends on the situation. Trespassing is a crime. And I’ve read many accounts of EAC who have called the police on their parents who are outside their door causing a scene. The police did arrive and did follow through on the reports.

Well I very much doubt the police would be interested, they’re not too keen to turn out when a crimes committed! An elderly lady knocking her daughters door will be way down their list of priorities

Calling the police when your mum is at the door? How pathetic is that? The police should only be called when a crime is being committed. Peonyrose, you sound like a wonderful friend, you only did what you thought was right, no one would argue with that. Your friend is lucky to have you.

Starlady

There but for the Grace of God go I

Always worth remembering, never pays to be too smug about your life!

"She had been gradually pushed out of the picture. From babysitting every weekend when children were small, they had their own room, to rarely seeing them when 8 and 10. "

So this was not a sudden thing then. (I realize, rereading your OP, that you said the CO happened after a couple of years of "reduced contact"). It could easily have been that her ED doesn't go out as much on the weekends anymore, that the GC have extracurricular activities on the weekend, or that ED now feels they're old enough to stay w/ a hired childminder. My guess is there were some issues your friend knew about that made her suspect it was something more than that. And that ED had been registering complaints all along, as she cut back contact, but your friend just didn't believe a total CO would happen. Poor woman! But I think we all need to remember that "There but for the grace of God, go I" and not assume it can't happen to us.

I agree with your comments Jenpax, she may have a shed load of grievances, but as you say, if that’s the case, she should have walked away years ago

This does come across as a manipulative AC situation. Others have talked about possible hurts and issues from childhood, and these might well be there however they were not it seems sufficient to prevent AC from using her mother for child care (when the children were small) and bleeding her dry of her financial resources! If someone feels really strongly that they should go NC for valid reasons relating to their childhood then surely they would not wait until they had used the parent for child care and financial bail outs!

Trouble is agnurse whenever you make this suggestion re police in various threads, it comes over as a suggested first response rather than as a possible response if things get beyond control or whatever.

I'd like to point out that it would be over the top for the daughter to call the police the moment her mother arrived. But, if the mother refused to leave, for example, or if she had previously been told not to come, then it would absolutely be an appropriate response.

In any case, if the daughter had chosen not to have contact, going to her home was not the best move.

Thankyou everyone. My friend has only visited on this one occasion. She had been gradually pushed out of the picture. From babysitting every weekend when children were small, they had their own room, to rarely seeing them when 8 and 10. I haven't spoken with her today, but I will ring tomorrow. At least she definitely knows she is not loved by her daughter, that has finally sunk in she said. Rejection is hard whatever the circumstances.

Peonyrose firstly, please don't beat yourself up over the suggestion you made to your friend. Who could have known that having taken so much from her mother, her daughter would have responded in such a a vile way.

Secondly, your response to agnurse was IMO spot on. For goodness sake agnurse is it any wonder that some AC behave in the way they do when for some, it's considered that calling the police because their mother, who is being ignored and is desperately trying to understand why she's been cut out, would be an appropriate response because she knocks on their door.

Yes, we only get one side of the story, but why do some posters always assume that there must have been some awful behaviour from a parent that finds themselves cut out?

Hithere you cannot possibly know if "usually" estranging AC give detailed accounts, from their point of view, of what's led to the estrangement.

So many EP's have no idea why they've been cut off. Their EAC doesn't tell them directly and the reasons given to others are often total fabrications.

No Starlady you aren't missing anything. There's been no suggestion whatsoever that the OP's friend was encouraged to contact her GC behind her daughter's back.

Sometimes the desire from some posters, who have no personal experience of being estranged, is to leap to the defense of the estranging AC.

We have to accept what we are being told here on GN. It may only be one side of the story but that doesn't mean that the side we're presented with isn't the truth.

I wonder if the daughter has a partner. Abusive, controlling people will try to estrange their partner and children from parents (especially as soon as the money runs out).

On the face of it, the treatment of this elderly lady seems terrible.

However, it is difficult to know exactly what goes on - or has gone on - in a family, and you have only heard one side of the story.

Hopefully, in time things will cool down. However badly a parent has behaved (apart from physical/sexual or serious mental abuse), I would hope that most adult children could, in their parent's old age, find it in their hearts to try and overcome any resentments. But I don't think someone outside the family, however well meaning, can really do much except be a friend and confidante to this lady.