Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.

Rosy - would you mind explaining why you don`t want your son and his wife to split up? Of course I would rather my grandchildren didn`t grow up in a "broken home" and I know that if my son left his wife there would be enormous repurcusions. But life is so short, I don`t want him wasting his being so unhappy. I`ve been so lucky in my own marriage - 40 years with the same man who gives me so much support and I really want the same for my children. I`ve even started to hope that my son meets someone else and that will give him the courage to leave - but that is highly unlikely as he works only with men and has no social life.

Oh, Rosy, meant to say, sorry about the gifts and that you don't get to choose something special to send little gd. I get what you mean about not having to explain where the money comes from. I hope at least the money is used to good purpose for her. But I understand that this must be awful for you.

Rosy, I'm so sorry about ds' situation. It must hurt you to see it, too. Also, I understand what you are saying about why the conversation gets strained. It's so sad, but again, at least he still sees and loves you, which is a good thing.

Fairydoll, I think I confused you with celeb, who has confused me with wendysue in the past. Sorry ladies! I think you were saying that some of my posts are similar to Wendy's - probably for the reason I said - but yet different ("alter ego") - probably because I'm more direct. That part is true - Wendy sugar coats too much, imo (no offense, Wendy, if you're reading this). I'm not sure if my approach is "opposite" enough to hers to be called "alter ego," but somewhat different, yes.

That piece of poetry/ prose? is very profound and I shall print it out and try to act on it. Thank you.

Starlady If only it were that simple! The reason things can feel a little strained is because we both try desperately hard not to hurt one another more than is necessary. My son told me just before Christmas that he no longer had any love or respect for his wife because of her behaviour since his little one was born, but that for two reasons he would not leave. Firstly, because he knows....she has told him...that she will make it difficult for him to see my granddaughter if he goes. Secondly, he lives and works in one of the most expensive cities in the world, and maintaining two homes would not be possible. The impression I get is that he has made his decision and doesn't want to keep talking about it.....so I don't. Even talking about my granddaughter becomes a little strained after a while though, because we both get upset that I am not part of the things he tells me about. Also, he feels the injustice of the amount of time she spends with her maternal grandparents. I am not allowed to buy her anything, although I can send money. My take on this is that money doesn't need explaining, whereas a Peppa Pig bike from "granny" does.

I have never had any input in my granddaughters upbringing, nor did I expect it. That really is not my style. I just wanted to give her all the love I gave her daddy. During and after her birth I was in hospital fighting for my life with sepsis. This was followed by major spinal surgery. As a result, my mobility is not the best. The thought of a new baby helped keep me going. Had I known how things would turn out, I may well not have fought as hard.

Despite all this, the last thing I want is for them to split up. I have told my son I am his past to a large extent. His future is his beautiful child.

thepoetsway.com/she-let-go/

Here it is ...although it says a different author. Lovely poem!

Parklife, meant to say that I'm sorry to hear how all pervasive your sorrow is. I hope other members are right and that it will ease in time.

Fairydoll, I've read some of WendySue's posts and she's lovely. But if mine are "in the same vein" as hers, I couldn't very well be her "alter ego?" Lol!

On a more serious note, I think you're saying that because I'm a gm who sometimes questions whether other gms made an error with their ac or cil and Wendy does that, too, in a few posts that Iv seen. But that just means there's more than one gm who sometimes thinks that. That's all.

Starlady

Your posts are in a similar vein to WendySue

Just wondered if you're her alter ego?

Beautiful read, mumofmadboys! I imagine one has to be in a certain place in their head to be able to do that though.

Smileless and celeb, sorry you aren't feeling well. Celeb, I hope the new medicine helps. Good news about ds and partner, but please don't stress over the mortgage, etc. That's their concern - they're adults, they'll handle it.

Eddie, congratulations on dd's wedding! It's lovely, too, that ds is still in touch with your family and will be coming to his sister's wedding. So sorry about the "black cloud" though. I hope you'll be able to focus on dd's happiness instead of the absence of ds' children, but I know that probably won't be easy.

Rosy, do you and ds/dil disagree over how they are raising gd? Are they aware of this? Could that be why the conversation with ds gets strained sometimes? Maybe if you let him know you won't question or criticize, he'll be more relaxed about those topics? Just a thought...

Anyhow, it's great that he still comes to see you and that he has assured you of his continued love!

I have just read 'She let go' by Ernest Holmes which was recommended on another thread. Sorry I can't do links. It is a beautiful piece of prose and I wonder if some of you would find it helpful. Please Google it if you have a few minutes.

Rosyglow?So sorry how sad, but wonderful as smileless says your son not been persuaded to cut you off.

If only my xxx felt able to still see her mum and dad but like smilelss we are the villains apparently

Exciting news mymdear son and partner have found new home, and using government scheme to get on property ladder, so exciting.

I don't hope now as I used to butmpart of me prays with every drop of blood in my body that I won't go to my grave estranged from my, daughter.

Sadly that is not my choice or call. There is absolutely nothing more i can do.

Norah if only I was laid back sadly I am not! My twin brother got all the laid back genes.

My gp was so wonderful she gave me twenty min appt and stretched it to forty five minutes she showed me diagram of facet joint and how my nerve is kinda squashed out of one disc hence all pain and related area pain.
In her opinion I must be patient it will heal eventually and injections may not work ?
She has altered my painf relief to controlled release morphine and stopped codeine carry on with lyrica and paracetemol and I have to take it all regularly go back in 2 weeks ooops we away so 3 weeks.

Last night was awful so much pain and I. Groin also, think may overdone it and was stressing over my d s hoping they will cope ok with mortgage,

eddiecatit's such a shame that such a wonderful day is going to have this shadow cast over it. It must be terrible to see you DS having such a tough time. The last time I saw our ES he looked terrible; barely recognisable and it was heartbreaking. Perhaps selfishly, I'm just glad that I wont have to see him again.

You're right we do get used to it, what else can we do but as you say it is always there in the background and some days it's intrusive and we just have to wait for those days to pass.

Thanks noraI do need to focus on the here and now. I can't change what's in the past and I've no idea what the future has in store so it's best to take each day as it comes.

We have a property in Florida and although we usually have great plans to travel when we get there we tend to stay local nowadays, laze around our pool, have BBQ's, shop (that's me) and eat out. Theme parks are a must and poor Mr. S. gets dragged around The Magic Kingdom at least once. Our dear friends son and family will be joining us for at least a week with their 3 boys. It will be lovely to see them enjoying the pool as our DGC of course, have never been.

RosyglowI can't imagine how difficult it must be for you and your DS. What a terrible situation you're both in. It beggars belief that any woman who truly loves her man can let him go to visit his mother without his own child. You say it feels as if she's still controlling things and it looks very much as if she is.

I just don't understand why anyone would want to be so cruel, controlling and manipulative. I suppose we should pity them, they must be very bad, very sad or both.

I'm so pleased that he left you in no doubt about how much he loves you. Despite her efforts she hasn't managed to destroy the relationship you have with your son, I wish the same could be said for our ES's wife. That said, I wish our ES had more about him and hadn't gone along with it.

Smileless I think goals are lovely. I also believe that those (me) who are more laid back - allowing life to float however it happens have an easier go.

Maybe that part of you that want's what you want right now is something you could challenge? You might feel more 'even' if you focus totally on yourself, in the here and now?

Florida for 5 weeks, where will you go, what will you see? I love Oct-Nov in Florida [jealous].

Hi everyone,

Just had my son home for five days, and whilst it was lovely, there was an elephant in the room. Our relationship, especially since his dad died, has always been so very open. Now, it feels like there are "no go" areas. I sensed he was holding things back, and I certainly watched what I said. So, even though she wasn't there, it felt like his wife was still controlling things. Obviously we talked about his beautiful daughter, and it made my heart sing to see how much he adored her, but after a while it felt strained. Inevitable I suppose as I don't even know her. So sad, but better than nothing. He left me in no doubt about his love for me though as he was leaving. We both shed tears. Que sera sera.

Much love and peaceful times to everyone suffering loss...x.

Parklife1 1 indontnthink it will always be aonsevere for you.

8 years on some days I barely think of her. A common trigger is those interviews with film stars pop stars etc when they ask their sadest time and normally death of a parent and I wonder will xxx care,

I dont now think of her every night and morning it gradually altered so I think of happier things and certainly not all day every day so parklife1 it is fairly recent for you isn't it? 8 years on it does ease in that way.

It's the first thing I think of in the morning and the last thing I think of at night. And during the day, all day and every day.

I can't say that there is no enjoyment left- that would be unfair to the family we still have and friends and neighbours. I also feel that I can't keep speaking of it irl because people will get fed up of hearing about it. But every time I hear stories of new grandchildren and babies the same age, it's another twist of the knife.

I have to believe it will get better. I shall be on my own on Mother's Day and it will be a difficult one.

Meant to say eddiecat I too wake up in night usually and my brain can't accept or comprehend the awful loss of xxx or believe how a loving diaghter couod discard us,

I remember how even as an adult she would creep into our room and have cuddle, I am crying as type this it's sooo sad she could cut us off,
I will never have cuddle with her again. ??
She was more tactile than I am, but what I would give to turn back time!

Eddica??
Sadly you are right we will never get over losing our children, why would we? We carried them for 9 months and they are flesh of our flesh. It would be abnormal if we could.

We have try so very hard to limit the hurt and damage to rest of our lives and relationships

Smilelss will pm you.?

Bad night so much pain dh is going on about me having overdone it last week.

Dr this afternoon look forward to telling her got another appt and chance treatment at Ipswich, which she refused me. Does seem very strange or is it because consultant I wasn't happy with offered me 2nd opinion and inchased itvia secretary?
Sadly just got look after yourself int today's world.

Ageing population and immigration has brought nhs to its knees.

Smileless - I don`t think you will every "get over" losing your son. Thank God we are still in contact with our son - it is "just" the grandchildren ( & DIL) we don`t see. Even so, there are still mornings when I wake up and can`t quite believe it has happened. We were such an ordinary family - no dramas, no crises, how did we end up like this? I think you just get used to the situation but it is still there in the background. Our daughter gets married soon - it should be a wonderful family occasion but there is a big black cloud hanging over it because the children won`t be there. I feel so sorry for my son - his cousins will be there with their partners and children and he will be there on his own. (Sorry Smileless - this post was meant to be supporting you and it`s ending up about me again!)

Thanks for responding norah,*eddiecat*, starlady and Celeb. I felt better after I'd posted yesterday and got it off my chest.

You're right norah, perhaps I've given myself a false schedule of how long this grieving will take. I've been thinking about it this morning and it's a bit like wanting to run when you've only just learned to walk. It's good to set yourself goals but not ones that are unattainable and I have to accept that although with time it gets easier it's never going to go away completely.

No, you didn't come across as trivialising eddiecat. I think I and Mr. S. underestimated what a toll living so close to them for over 4 years had on us. Instead of worrying about how I'm feeling, I should be grateful that at last I can let go and relax. Before a wound can heal it has to be cleaned out and perhaps this is my body's way of cleaning out the emotional debris.

I've still got this virus Celeb which isn't helping. We don't go to Florida until October, we were due to go in May but decided to spend time here settling in; maybe we should have gone then too but I know Mr. S. wanted to wait and when we do go, we'll be there for 5 weeks. So looking forward to July.

Smilelss ???. I personally think you were a tiny bit optimistic over the healing process,

It's wonderful you have moved, but maybe like Norah said don't be too hard on yourself, quite normal and completely natural to still feel upset and sad sometimes,

We have both been cheated of our child and Grandchildren it's a huge loss.

Try and just be kind to yourself and grieve and let go sometimes, you are maybe expecting too much of yourself,

No shame i. Crying sometimes, or being upset at our huge losses.

It doesn't mean we aren't still enjoying our lives or doing our best to limit the hurt,

The counsellor told me I would always feel sad over my loss as it was a huge sad loss of course she was right.

Virus leaves us bit run down too,

When is your next break in the sun ?

Keep strong and so looking forward to our link up in July xxx

We live near the sea too and a walk along the prom, as well as being bracing, is quite therapeutic I find.

We're also near countryside and some pleasant towns, so very lucky.

Smileless - I should have directed that last post to you - not just launched into it willy nilly!

When we are under a lot of stress I think we push ourselves to keep going and keep going. It`s when we stop that everything hits us. I believe it`s why so many people get ill at Christmas - they put themselves under lots of pressure before hand - and come the 25th everything comes crashing down!
I`m sure you will start to buck up soon. I`m so envious of you being near the sea - we couldn`t be further away. A bit of sea air and some sunshine will soon see you back on top of things. If you don`t feel like going to the gym don`t go. A stroll along the front will do you just as much good.
(I`ve just read that through and it sounds like I`m trivialising what you have been through - I`m really not)

I don't know you, but I expect you are wanting too much from yourself, too quickly. Perhaps a bit like when our parent passes, things seem to be ok - but at times tears just flood. Be gentle with yourself and don't hold to a false schedule of how long grieving should take.