Support for those estranged from family members. Moving on together,

You do seem distressed today. I know that this time of year can be difficult. I don't believe Wendy Sue means any harm. She replied to a different thread with a different situation.

You have written a few posts over the last day or two that show how upset you are. I am sure you do not have dementia as you said that others have suggested. However, it is concerning to read how distressed you have become recently. Maybe you could take a deep breath and reflect on the lovely day you had at christmas.

I am not a regular poster, just concerned. Sorry.

Wendysue is on the thread; end of tether with m.i.l on relationships forum, advising a young wife from mumsnet to 'cut out' her m.i.l, her husbands only child! then comes on here..!

Rosyglow and Eddiecat. I'm sorry to read that. It may be worthconsider that being brought up with feuding parents is worse than living in modest accomadation.

Wishing us all a peaceful, content 2017.

Thanks everyone. Your support means a lot. My son is in exactly the same financial situation as eddiecats son, which is what's stopping him from leaving. Because he wants only the very best for his little one, he is prepared to put up with things. I feel so helpless. If you want a partner in crime eddie, I'm your gal!....Bonnie and Clyde.

Thanks for everyone`s support. Son would very much like to leave but his biggest problem is that he can`t afford to pay the mortgage on the family home and finance somewhere else for himself - he really doesn`t want the children to have to move as they are very settled there and it is close to their school. I really wish we could help him but we can`t at the moment - and I know that we need to be very careful about giving him money as she might end up getting half of it. I will have to start doing the lottery - or rob a bank!

Rosie how awful for you, how your d.i.l can justify her cruel actions, well she can't! to cheer you up a little

Eddiecat my nasty s.i.l would send txt & e-mails deemed from my D, but we could clearly see who they were from!

Rosieglow and eddiecatand BIG (((hugs))). I can't begin to imagine how heart breaking your situations must be. Maybe some of these womendo have mental health problems or maybe their just nasty, selfish, controlling women; I don't doubt for one moment that our d.i.l. is the latter.

Celeb it sounds as if you've had a lovely Christmasand I'm so pleased. You've had such a difficult year; it's good to know that your DS and his partner realise that and went out of their way to spoil you.

Good to see your post Rhinestone, I was wondering where you'd got too. Yes, courage is what we need and courage is what we all have. We come on here and open our hearts and bear our souls, not just to help ourselves but to help one another.

I'l be glad when this year's over. In some ways it's been the hardest of all but now that we've settled into our new home I'm looking forward to 2017 and I hope that all of you have something to look forward too.

Eddiecat and Rosyglow I am so sorry for your pain. I agree with Stella though. Can your sons get a free consultation with a lawyer ( Not sure what you call them in England) to find out their chances of having some custody? I think the unknown is scary but armed with some information they could build up their nerve to get a divorce if they are that unhappy. What happens if you go to where they live and visit. I feel sorry for those who are scared to stand up for what is the correct thing to do because of what their spouse may do. That's no way to live.
Sparklygran Your statement about estrangement being abuse is spot on. I have read many articles that confirm that if the child had a loving relationship with the grandparents and the parents tear their children away ... it is abuse. That the parents are showing their children that you settle disagreements by estrangement. Not much of an example for children is it?
If I can give us all one thing for the new year it would be COurage. Courage to go on in our lives, courage to fight this anger and hate and courage to take care of ourselves first. I have had three friends pass away this year and I know how precious life can be. Too bad the estranged children don't know that. Maybe 2017 can show them the light.

Happy and Healthy Nee Year to you All??

Eddiecat and Rosyglow, what horrible situations you are dealing with. Are your sons happy with these women aside from the issue of them trying to alienate them and your GC from you? On the face of it, they sound like very unhappy marriages. Certainly, a man regulary crying on the phone to his mother is not at all happy. Would they consider leaving? Despite what the popular press would have us think, Family Judges are usually surprisingly wise (I worked in Family Courts for years) and where residence (custody) of children is concerned, the days are gone in the UK where it was automatically deemed appropriate for it to be given to the mother. The Courts prefer joint custody arrangements, but will also give residency to the father if that appears to offer the most stable arrangement for the children.

Hello rosyglow - I`ve seen previous posts of your`s and thought we were in the same situation. Like you, I am starting to think DIL has serious mental health problems as some of her behaviour is so irrational. This business of sending texts pretending to be our son is very odd - surely she must realise people will find out what she has done - she doesn`t even delete the texts after she sends them! If she doesn`t want to see us that is up to her - but preventing us from seeing the children and making it so difficult for our son to see us or his grandparents is just plain cruel. They have tried counselling but if the counsellor wants to discuss anything she isn`t happy about she refuses to continue with it.

eddiecat, I have exactly the same situation as you, and it's breaking my heart. Whenever my son has suggested bringing my granddaughter to see me - they too are 200 miles away - WW3 has broken out. Threatening to change the locks, tell the police he has kidnapped the little one. The police would laugh at her, he is her father, but neither of us want her witnessing that. I'm actually starting to think the woman has serious MH problems, and I fear how it will all end. I have begged my lad to let things go for now, and try to suck it up, but his unhappiness is killing me. He came home for four days before Christmas, and we talked and laughed, and talked some more. His work takes him away a great deal, which is good in one way, but he misses his little one. He is a truly good man who really loved this woman - as did I - but she has lost his love and respect through her own actions regarding his child. Me...I'm just utterly bewildered.

It is good to hear that many of you were still able to enjoy Christmas with loved ones. I was alone, but my son sent videos throughout the day, and to see the little one laughing and happy meant a lot. She is always in my heart....as is her daddy. No one can take that away.

Much love to you all.x.?

Eddiecat Lucky's post was good advise for you. Hope you're ok Lucky

Celebgran nice to hear your Son & d.i.l gave you a wonderful Xmas. Hope the hospital sort out your health probs & do something for the pain 5th Xmas for estrangement for me

Eddiecat, my heart aches for you and your son! What an awful situation he's caught in and how hard for you and DH to have to stand by and watch it! You must feel so helpless! (((Hugs!)))

Perhaps DIL would be ok with the idea of his coming to you with the kids though? It would let her off the hook. No offense, but she might totally love the idea of not having to see you and yours, while getting a free day at the same time. Has your son mentioned this to her?

Anyway, I agree with Luckylegs that all you can do is be there for your son and GC. In fact, if he decides to leave her, would he be able to stay with you & DH?

Hopefully, they'll get into marriage counseling or he'll get into counseling on his own to find out how to deal. But these are solutions they have to come to themselves. You might suggest it to him the next time he calls and complains, but that's all. The rest is up to him & her.

More (((hugs)))

Sorry about my error, celeb! I think I had you mixed up with someone else as far as DIL is concerned.

Glad you had a good time and glad to hear about the progress you're making regarding d!

Hope you're feeling better soon, healthwise.

And no, I could never have CO my mother either. Unless a mom is/was really abusive, I don't know how anyone can do it!

Eddiecat, how awful for you, you must be so worried about your son and grandchildren. Wish I had done answers but I don't, except to say there is nothing you can do but be there for them, should they need it. Just for your son to be able to talk to you must help him in some way. Do hope the new year brings a solution
. To all the others who although heartbroken at estrangement, have had a good Christmas with other loved ones, I am glad. We are the ones that did and do all the worrying. ?

I am so worried about my son. He lives 200 miles away but phones in tears as he is so unhappy. DIL said they would all come and see us last week but then backed down. Please don`t suggest he should bring the children on his own - it would be very frightening for them to be put in a car with her shouting & screaming in the background and he would pay for it afterwards.
My mother-in-law is 90 soon & DIL had accepted the invitation to her party but is now coming up with excuses for not coming - she actually texted my sister-in-law on my son`s phone, pretending to be him. I just want him away from her but he can`t afford to move out & I know that if he did she would make it difficult to see the children and would probably be threatening suicide etc.
Each Christmas we think "surely it will be better by next year" but it gets worse and worse

Sorry it was wonderful Xmas, 8th one without d and I rarely think of her at Xmas now wendysue, progress! At last

no I didn't say that wendysue, she has always made us very welcome but this year expect maybe as I have been so ill it was amazing for My son and her to have gone to so much trouble !

It really helped, but am feeling unwell now after journey very queasy
Dr again tom that and hospitals 2nd home.

Nice see u again. Wendysue.

Whatever problems I had with my mum I could never have just forsaken her and not cared about her anymore that is the cruellest thing a child can do to a parent.

Wow! Celebgran! So glad you had such a good time with DS and his partner! And she even cooked for you (you've told us before that she rarely does)! Sounds like a wonderful Christmas, despite your estrangement from your D!

Jammytoast, I'm very sorry that you feel you have to keep your kids from your mom for their protection. I know that must hurt you. Whether you see her as a physical or emotional danger to your kids, that must have been hard for you to face. Assuming you're right, I'm glad you were honest enough with yourself to admit this and do something about it. It's my belief that parents HAVE TO put their kids first, BEFORE their relationship with their own parents/the GPs, no matter how painful that is. I don't think it's "unkind," at all, to shield your kids from someone you feel would be harmful to them, even if that someone is a GP.

Please realize, though, that this doesn't mean that every EGP is "dangerous" or "toxic." Estrangement doesn't always go down the same way. In some situations I've seen, the younger parents were just being unfair. In others, it's just that the conflict between parents and GPs has made it difficult to bring the GPs and GC together. One thing I'm sure of is that many of the EGPs who come in here are very loving parents and GPs who never meant for this separation to happen.

Oh jammytoast what a very unkind unfeeling post. I don't know your circumstances but there doesn't sound like any compassion or human decency in your words.

We gave birth and the most precious gift of all life to our estranged children and I make absolutely not appology for saying I always always treated my own parents and in laws with kindness and compassion and yes I feel if we have been good parents we are entitled to that.

What a superior attitude my estranged daughter has i.e. She is perfect and makes no mistakes unlike her mother who is not good enough now she has served her purpose of providing the cash and emotional support needed.

However life is not always as we plan it, and I a man happy to report we have just got back from amazing stay with my son when soooo much love and care was lavished on us.

Yes we did see my lovely great niece and nephew before we went. It was great little baby boy 5 months now as sooo cuddly !

Happy to say we didn't mention xxx name to my son we were too busy being spoilt and having fun. Journey there was nightmare, and delicious meal sons partner had ready ni could t really manage I was so tired and queasy we went straight to bed.!
Thank goodness managed enjoy yesterday when we were cooked yummy xmas dinner and played board games with my son's stepsons.
My son put my favourite freesias in our room and insisted I took them home, we felt so cared about !

Sorry jammy toast umfeel your mum a danger to your children, I presume you know best, it seems very unkind.

So glad smileless that Xmas went well.
It was hard before we went to our son as I feel so yuk on all this pain relief.
However see spinal chap on 9th jan!
Gynaecologist on 4th
So should get some answers and help.

Happy new year all of you ????

Sparklygran Our AC have cut us out of their lives, and yes there is nothing we can do about that, it is their choice as an adult, but our GC did not cut us out, they did not decide to have nothing to do with us ever again, they were never asked, it was done to them! To take away all that love is child abuse and no mistake, my precious beloved GD was taken from being the most loved, adored & cherished little girl in the whole wide world, to being an unloved stepchild...[can't finish]!

I know that 'loved & adored.....' applies to all the other grans GC on here too

Missed a page again

The reason I was 'cut out' Jammy is jealousy from my precious GD stepdad & his mother. I most certainly do believe we have a right to see our beloved GC and they to see us [obviously not if GP are harmful to GC] They are 'flesh of our flesh, bone of our bone' they carry our DNA our blood runs through their veins. We all carry 9 generations of our ancestors in us. My beloved GD has a right to her family ,her nannie,me, that she had such a special & loving bond with, she has a right to her name that her nasty stepdad took from her.
When she grows up and learns the enormity of what's been done to her, what's been taken from her, she will look at those that did this and she will not like what she sees!!

What upsets me most is that my older daughter and her husband brainwashed the grandchildren as they were growing up, now both gd are adults and still wont have anything to do with me despite me contacting them! god knows what theyve been told over the years. I have taken a step back and wont contact them anymore, theres only so much rejection one can take. I just keep thinking KARMA!

Not heard from younger daughter since I said no to her when she was after money a few months ago and verbally abused me!

I am luckier than some as I have a very good relationship with my son and daughter in law, and I have an adorable 2 yr old grandson, pity they live so far away, at least we have skype. To be honest if it wasnt for them I really dont know how I would cope with this estrangement with my daughters for over 7 years!!

Jammytoast I don't think I am entitled to see either my estAC nor my DGC. If my DS has decided he wants no more contact then as his mother I have to accept that. After a period of private grieving and sadness on my part.

I also think that in time some of my DGC when older will maybe want to find out out about me.

Smileless and Stella14 - well said, about love, loyalty, and what one did for the child when younger being overridden by 'entitlement' or maybe resentment on their part - it takes maybe a long time to see this as it is. I now refuse to be a victim to the estrangement and ongoing deliberate cruelty as I see it.
And maybe that wont change unless estDS or DiL has therapy or a life improving change of philosophy.

In the recent US election there was a saying 'when they act low, we act higher' - meaning if someone is rude, cruel, angry, we don't have to react badly back.

Heads held high ladies. Or at least I try to tell myself that. As well as saying a private prayer to welcome my new grandchild to the world. .