The early release scheme it's a gimmick and helps no-one but criminals. Just build more prisons.

Yes, but he did recognise the issue and had started to do something, that was my point - I think we have to be even handed.

But not many places and all far too late. There were a few PMs before RS and all Tory between 2010- 2024.

Tuliptree

GrannyGravy13

Since the foundation of the modern Conservative Party (1852?) they have governed for 98 years (20 PM’s)

Labour has governed for 36 years since its formation in 1924 (8 PM’s)

Obviously Conservatives will have done more of most things

Oh and I do not respond to people who shout in the real life, nor do I respond to posters who shout with their use of capital letters.

Well to be fair GG if I were you I wouldn’t want to respond to try and defend the complete failure of the 2010-2024 administrations re prison places. As for the capitals, it was for emphasis and sarcasm. I’d love to know shat your frequent use of italics is all about?

I don’t think that’s quite fair Tuliptree, given some of the prison building programme was initiated by Sunak.

An interesting discussion is to be had around early release and prison building policies
I would like to be part of that. But not really interested in party political sniping. The lack of sufficient prison places and of effective rehabilitation is longstanding and straddles many governments.

Some things that need to be considered:
- the lack of efficiency in the court systems ... the chaos and delays are beyond credence
- sentencing policy in general
- the rules surrounding life sentences
- the environment within prisons which are trying to do two things (deterence plus rehab) and seem to be struggling to achieve either
- early release and how this impacts on both the above aims
- drugs in prison .... this is a big one. As long as there are drug barons still able to run their businesses whilst inside, then prisons become unmanageable.
- prison staff recruitment, training, pay and conditions.
- access to mental health treatments in prison.
- proper discharge planning
- proper post discharge support
- investment decisions
- preventive measures via good social educational and mental health services before the offending happens.

Why is the subject dear to my heart? Why have I had time to think hard about it all? ....
A much loved young relative who suffered in utero brain development problems became addicted in their teens after a failed and exhaustibg childhood battle to get the sort of medical and mental health support needed. They were just labelled as bad. Their worn out family, after 18 years of striving to manage this damaged and behaviourally difficult young person and get the necessary help were then faced with unscrupulous drug dealers exploiting this person's vulnerability by getting them hooked on drugs and dealing and all the violence that goes with that. Prison ensued ... rightly because they committed an offence. There the downward spiral continued... threats of violence and demanding money with menaces and forcing into dealing, all within the prison walls. Released under a tariff system after a few years with no proper discharge plans, gets back into trouble, goes back to prison, released, gets into trouble, goes back to prison ...... you get the picture. They are wholly unable to manage a normal life without proper support and each return to prison institutionalises them still further
A young person's life ruined for good. I see no happy future for them and watching all the family suffer is awful.

Had the health systems not failed them as a child, had there been proper mental health support, had drug rehab been available, had the prison system not reinforced and exacerbated their problems .... it could have been a different story. But hey ... in order to have all that we need to invest in services and (heaven forfend!) pay in fairly via our taxes to make this happen ... no, let's just write these people off and then sound off and demand more prison places and longer sentences when they disrupt our cosy lives with their bad behaviour.
There will be people who are simply and inexplicably evil and they need locking up for good ... but the rest of the prison population is much more like my dear relative. A lost relative. One who I could weep for every day and for those around them whose lives have been wrecked.

Oops not shat obvs but what

GrannyGravy13

Since the foundation of the modern Conservative Party (1852?) they have governed for 98 years (20 PM’s)

Labour has governed for 36 years since its formation in 1924 (8 PM’s)

Obviously Conservatives will have done more of most things

Oh and I do not respond to people who shout in the real life, nor do I respond to posters who shout with their use of capital letters.

Well to be fair GG if I were you I wouldn’t want to respond to try and defend the complete failure of the 2010-2024 administrations re prison places. As for the capitals, it was for emphasis and sarcasm. I’d love to know shat your frequent use of italics is all about?

Sunshinegirls

I'm no supporter of the Tory Party not anymore after 14 years in power they ruined our country but Labour and Burnham are in charge now and only they have the power to do something.

But some things take more than 3 days to put right .its a pity that those who jump in to rubbish anything this government do haven’t got the moral backbone to express their outrage at the complete failure of the last run of Tory Governments to provide sufficient prison places -a 400 net gain in 14 years.. Really? Really ?

Since the foundation of the modern Conservative Party (1852?) they have governed for 98 years (20 PM’s)

Labour has governed for 36 years since its formation in 1924 (8 PM’s)

Obviously Conservatives will have done more of most things

Oh and I do not respond to people who shout in the real life, nor do I respond to posters who shout with their use of capital letters.

I'm no supporter of the Tory Party not anymore after 14 years in power they ruined our country but Labour and Burnham are in charge now and only they have the power to do something.

Yet more inconvenient truths - Sunak’s government released over 10000 prisoners upto 70 days early in the 6 months before the election I’m hazarding a really wild guess that it was something to do with the shortage of prison places caused by ?? ?

AI Overview

The UK is currently undertaking the largest jail expansion programme since the Victorian era, backed by a £4.7 billion investment to deliver 14,000 additional prison places by 2031.

Around 5,000 places are under construction, building on nearly 3,000 places already delivered at sites including HMP Millsike.Specific ongoing developments across the expansion programme include:

New Prisons: Main construction is underway at HMP Welland Oaks in Leicestershire, which will provide approximately 1,700 places when it opens in 2029.

Houseblocks & Refurbishments: Major projects are constructing new blocks at sites like HMP Channings Wood in Devon, HMP Wayland in Thetford, and HMP Highpoint in Suffolk.

Rapid Deployment Cells (RDC): Modular units are being rapidly rolled out across 18 sites to quickly add capacity.

Despite the rollout, the ambitious building schedule has faced setbacks, including supply chain disruptions caused by the collapse of major contractor ISG, which previously held contracts on several of the projects.

Scotland has a devolved prison service.

GrannyGravy13

The early releases started 2007-2010 under Gordon Brown to manage severe overcrowding.

I know - this was a truly truly shocking scheme Over 3 years from 2007-2010, 80,000 prisoners were released EIGHTEEN yes folks EIGHTEEN days yes DAYS early with a reoffending rate of less than 2%. When Labour came in in 1997 there were 60,335 places and when they left in 2010 there were around 89,000. When the Tories left in 2024 there had been a net gain of 482 places. Facts hey don’t you just hate them especially when it’s all Labour's fault .

Judges and magistrates have heard all the evidence and conducted a proper sentencing exercise. They have applied the sentence accordingly and should not be overridden by politicians seeking a quick solution to another problem of their own making.

It is mockery of the justice system and the rights of victims and their families. We are all much less safe.

A civil engineer posted

“Our project - 18 months to go from a green field site to a fully operational international airport with accommodation for 4000 people in the Falklands with all materials shipped from UK. Give us the land and we will build fully functional prisons in 12 months.”

Well said that man. It’s obviously possible.

Death penalty should be brought back for child killers, the likes of those two paedophiles who killed that child. Terrorists too.

Yes non-violent prisoners maybe but definitely not violent prisoners/ murderers/ paedos

AGAA4

GrannyGravy13

The two people who qualify for early release were passengers in the car that dragged and killed the policeman, the driver is not for early release.

Yes but they were laughing in court so clearly have no respect for the law or the police officer who was murdered.

Quite. They were sentenced to 13 years in 2019 so make them serve 13 years. PC Harper's widow and family are serving a damn sight longer sentence than that.

I remember quite vividly the Tories blaming the previous Labour government for all the economic woes they'd left right up to the last GE!

Such prison early release schemes were introduced by a Conservative government and have prevailed and been further developed, for the most part authorised by Conservative governments for 173 years. Hardly a gimmick

Evidence suggests that there is less reoffending in countries with more focus on rehabilitation, than there is in countries with a more punishment based model of incarceration.

GrannyGravy13

The early releases started 2007-2010 under Gordon Brown to manage severe overcrowding.

Actually- Prison Early Releases in England began in 1853 under the Conservative Government 1853 Penal Servitude Act which introduced the "ticket of leave" system, allowing convicts to serve the final portion of their sentences on license in the community.

Over the decades, statutory early release became more formalised. Key milestones include:
Conservative Government 1991 The Criminal Justice Act introduced automatic early release for prisoners serving sentences of less than four years.
Labour Party 2003 Automatic early release was expanded to include more serious criminals.

Due to chronic prison capacity crises, various governments have frequently relied on emergency early release schemes:
Conservative Government ECSL Scheme October 2023 The End of Custody Supervised Licence (ECSL) allowed eligible offenders to be freed up to 18 days early.
2024 Emergency Measures authorised by Rishi Sunak Conservative Government prior to the July 2024 GE Facing critical overcrowding, the Conservative government implemented an emergency scheme allowing eligible prisoners serving more than five years to be released automatically after serving just 40% of their sentence instead of 50%. Sex offenders, high-level violent offenders, and domestic abusers were excluded.

Modern Reforms: In recent years, up to 70% of prisoners were subject to automatic early release, with subsequent policies exploring the option for inmates to earn earlier release credits through work, education, or training.
You can track current legislative developments and prison data on the Ministry of Justice portal. For historical context and penal reform analysis, visit the Howard League for Penal Reform.

GrannyGravy13

The two people who qualify for early release were passengers in the car that dragged and killed the policeman, the driver is not for early release.

Yes but they were laughing in court so clearly have no respect for the law or the police officer who was murdered.

The two people who qualify for early release were passengers in the car that dragged and killed the policeman, the driver is not for early release.

Casdon

He’s on it like a car bonnet.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ejwedl1gno

Thanks. I'm glad AB is going to check on this. We need to know that those being released are no danger to the public.
The case of the two men involved in the killing of a police officer needs special attention. They clearly have no respect for the law so maybe they should stay in prison.
Killing a police officer in the line of duty is a very serious offence.

He’s on it like a car bonnet.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ejwedl1gno