How will the VAT cut be funded?

We could also do with reliable buses. We look as though we are fairly well served with buses locally but DH & I have had several planned 2 bus journeys spoiled by one or the other of them not turning up.

I hadn't used buses since my late 20s and this is something that just didn't happen then.

Primrose53

Whitewavemark2

Most bus fares to be capped at £2.

Still going in the right direction of travel😊

What good is that for those in areas with poor bus services, like one bus a week to a market town?

So, just to clarify, if everyone can't use a bus at a reduced rate, no one should be able to. Is that what you're saying?

I agree we need more actual bus runs but what that means differs from place to place to place. A towns needs are very different to rural needs which are different again from Metropolitan cities. Another reason for the proposed devolution.

Good point. He should cut the initiative immediately, obviously.

Alternatively, if the buses get used more, the initiative could grow to reopen the routes that were cut when Thatcher privatised public transport, as I suggested upthread.

Maybe it could be funded with the money saved by cutting the amount of taxpayers' money given to landlords and to employers who don't pay their staff enough to live without benefits?

Whitewavemark2

Most bus fares to be capped at £2.

Still going in the right direction of travel😊

What good is that for those in areas with poor bus services, like one bus a week to a market town?

LemonJam

AB has only been in the job for a couple of days! His new to post cabinet minsters just coming to terms with their briefs. I sense huge impatience in the air- but I guess that was always going to be the case.

I wouldn't expect all funding streams to be spelt out in fine detail at this stage. Some posters are happy not knowing where funding is coming from, some happy to wait for a more detailed budget statement and some that are going to be impatient with the new LP leader and announcements anyway.

AB is seasoned and experienced and will no doubt steer his course and his cabinet's course, in a planned way and in a realistic, step by step timescale.

Looking at the UK, it isn't a democracy that only demands instant gratification. However, modern media, political incentives, and cultural expectations have increased pressure on governments to produce rapid, visible results.

It makes sustained, long-term policymaking more difficult, even when it would ultimately benefit the country and I'm not sure how you change the current culture.

Everyone wants things to be better then they start going on about where the money will come from. This thé governments job, not ours. We do our bit, now they should do theirs, on our behalf.

The change to £2 starts in Jan 2027.
AB was heard to announce that it will be there for the whole of 2027.
Meaning . . .

Whitewavemark2

Most bus fares to be capped at £2.

Still going in the right direction of travel😊

They are already capped in our council area and there is a £1 single fare for under 19s.

I know France has standing charges - anyone know anything about other countries in Europe? Another argument put forward for them is a consistent reliable funding base to maintain the infrastructure. As for the issue of the impact of abolition on the unit charge and thus on high users for health reasons, I wonder in reality how that would pan out? It might sound a straightforward idea but we all know that for every complicated problem there is always a simple answer and it’s usually wrong. Would such a special tariff ( if it could be defined who should be on it) just end up being another divisive issue to beat ill/ disabled people with and prompt more outrage at such people? But I actually think my first point is what’ll stop standing charges being abolished - the energy companies won’t countenance such a reliable income stream being removed.

Mollygo

^Yes, that's a big saving, and if it encourages more people to use buses and leave cars at home, so much the better.^
If it means the people without cars are able to more easily afford to use the buses, That’s even better.

Yes, this too. The environment will benefit more from people leaving cars at home, and if more people who couldn't otherwise afford to travel can now do so that's a social benefit. Both are good, and if the scheme expands to reopen quieter routs that have been closed, so much the better.

I agree about standing charges. Martin Lewis has been campaigning on this for a long time and calls them a moral poll tax.

There comes a point where people who try hard to keep their footprint small and or generate renewables can’t make any more economies and find their standing charges exceed their energy use. I’m in that category.

The argument is always that unit prices would have to rise to compensate and that would penalise households who have to use a lot of energy due to poor health. But there could be special tariffs for that. I though that social tariffs were being introduced but haven’t heard any more about that.

Something for the new Minister Miatta Fahnbulleh to get together with Lewis and Ofgem to sort out.

Standing Charges. They are unfair I have Solar panels and use very little grid power in summer so do a lot of others but the connection still needs to be maintained.

My standing charge is a lot more than power used, every dwelling needs a supply available that needs to be paid for

Mollygo

^Yes, that's a big saving, and if it encourages more people to use buses and leave cars at home, so much the better.^
If it means the people without cars are able to more easily afford to use the buses, That’s even better.

Both are equally important, as if people leave their cars at home and travel by bus it will enable buses to become more viable, and expand routes, which will benefit everybody. It’s also better for the environment and reduces road traffic accidents.

Mollygo

cc

Personally I think that a major problem is the current high standing charge. The less power you use, the higher the proportion of your bill that is made up of the standing charge. If people were actually charged for the power that they used it would be fairer for low users.

That’s true.
We used £2.47 of gas from June bill to July bill. That, plus the standing charge plus VAT came to nearly £13.

You illustrate the unfairness of the current system very well Mollygo, if the standing charge was removed the unit charge went up to cover this, low users like yourself would have much fairer bills.

Yes, that's a big saving, and if it encourages more people to use buses and leave cars at home, so much the better.
If it means the people without cars are able to more easily afford to use the buses, That’s even better.

cc

Personally I think that a major problem is the current high standing charge. The less power you use, the higher the proportion of your bill that is made up of the standing charge. If people were actually charged for the power that they used it would be fairer for low users.

That’s true.
We used £2.47 of gas from June bill to July bill. That, plus the standing charge plus VAT came to nearly £13.

Exactly. So for the two jobs DD works, that means she will save £18, plus bus fare for DGD. You can imagine, if she needs to do two jobs, neither of them are well paid, so it’s a big saving.
Yes, that's a big saving, and if it encourages more people to use buses and leave cars at home, so much the better.

OMG am I not allowed a choice of what I care about, just because I’d like to know where some funding is coming from?
I'm not 'allowing' or disallowing anything. We aren't at school. I was just asking why you are concerned about the costings of some things but not others. People seem to be picking on everything they can, to find fault with the Labour government, so I'm interested to know what makes the difference between things that have to come with full costings attached and things that don't.

I agree about standing charges, cc. Scrapping them would be a very good move.

Sorry, unable to edit. I meant standing charges should be removed altogether.

Personally I think that a major problem is the current high standing charge. The less power you use, the higher the proportion of your bill that is made up of the standing charge. If people were actually charged for the power that they used it would be fairer for low users.

It's not the tax he's should cut, it's the price of energy - and so do something about the disgusting profits being made by energy (and food and so many other so called 'companies' that are really just thieves).
Until AB tackles that - nothing much will change.

I think we have to be realistic though. If everybody who currently uses buses and pays £3 has every journey cost reduced to £2, that will make a significant difference to them. Reinstating bus services to rural communities is a further step, will benefit a lot less people and will be far more costly. None of us will benefit from every change, but if the ones that affect large numbers of people happen, that is surely a good thing.

Yes Zetters!

Increasing bus routes in rural locations would make a huge difference to people’s lives.

My daughter lives in a remote village with a very sparse bus service. My 19 year old grandson has been unable to get a summer job because he can’t get in to the nearest town where any work would be located.

£2 bus fare is meaningless when there are no buses🤷‍♀️

I am still awaiting an announcement that will make a tangible difference to my life.

No buses in my part of rural England.

VAT relief off electricity bills ….the VATon my last monthly bill was £2.70 ……but I suppose every little helps!

There must be quite a few people like myself who normally only pay bus fares before nine in the morning, when I take my grandchildren to school. A flat-rate single fare in London is £1.75 and covers you for multiple journeys within the hour so the new fare regime honestly won't make a difference to those of us on Gransnet who live in Greater London.
I don't know the situation for others in the UK, though for those who live rurally and need to travel early it would obviously make more difference.

Graphite

MaizieD has explained this many times. The government can create whatever money it wants to.

Thanks. I knew I’d read it somewhere.
It doesn’t work for household budgets sadly.