Security for all MPs

As I have said upthread, all public figures and MPs should be subject to the laws on hate crime and inciting violence. Farage skates quite close to the edge with these and he is aware of that.

That is why he is worried.

He has single-mindedly sought publicity for his views in the knowledge that these could cause distress to some communities.

I ask again, what genuinely makes Farage truly believe he is any more at risk, or any more vulnerable, than any other MP

You dont think he is more at risk than others?
I do.

Would it surprise anyone if, out of all MPs, something happened to him?

There would be all sorts of, "I didnt like him but he is perfectly entitled to say his points" from numerous posters, if something did happen.
Could that be said of many other MPs. Maybe it could? [I cant say I know what all of them say.]
Which sort of hints in itself, that he is on the vulnerable, at risk list if there is one.

If Farage was so worried about security and unlike most of us knew that she lived alone in a remote place, why didn't he use some of his £5m to protect her?

Surely all party leaders should be meeting together with our Home Secretary? Wouldn’t that be more open and more inclusive.

I’m assuming Farage, rather than Mahmoud, instigated this meeting?

I ask again, what genuinely makes Farage truly believe he is any more at risk, or any more vulnerable, than any other MP?

Or I can put it another way, does Farage believe he is more important somehow?

Farage has openly admitted “incidents” have occurred that he’s failed to report to the police, and in the “car” and “mob” incidence his insurance company.

Why?

Btw, whatever some might think, I’d ask this question about any other MP or party leader.

Take Lowe, for example, I don’t believe he doesn’t get threats against him, he’s says some truly awful stuff.

I’ve also seen some pretty awful comments on here, which some could call “vitriolic” about other party leaders.

LemonJam

I agree with Cossy, and state funded security should only be available for state funded MP role

What proportion of his time does Farage spend on public service MP role for Clacton and what proportion on all his other activities here in the UK and abroad?

Does he worry about security when he's in America supporting pro gun Trump?

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

I just heard Ed Davey on the news saying exactly that LemonJam, he was implying that Farage was being economical with the truth in his account of the security available to party leaders, and one assumes he would know.

In the news broadcast that I heard (BBC) they went on to say that Nigel `Farage was meeting with the Home Secretary to discuss security arrangements.

It was Radio 2 I heard, and yes, the newsreader did say that, which prompted the response from Ed Davey. I took it to mean that he didn’t believe Farage’s account of what was previously offered to him, and he hoped that Farage would give an honest account of this meeting. If I were Mahmoud, I’d issue my own statement about the outcome straight after the meeting.

Sorry, my post was in response to LemonJam.

Definitely not, the clue is in the title. This was one of a series of threads, if there was a thread designed for condolences (which I realise there wasn’t), surely it would have been the one, started before this, entitled ‘Ann Widdecombe has died’, where people were expressing their shock at her sudden death and posting their immediate reaction.

Casdon

I just heard Ed Davey on the news saying exactly that LemonJam, he was implying that Farage was being economical with the truth in his account of the security available to party leaders, and one assumes he would know.

In the news broadcast that I heard (BBC) they went on to say that Nigel `Farage was meeting with the Home Secretary to discuss security arrangements.

I just heard Ed Davey on the news saying exactly that LemonJam, he was implying that Farage was being economical with the truth in his account of the security available to party leaders, and one assumes he would know.

It's impossible to support anyone unless they engage in due process. It's then unfair to blame the incumbent government when an individual has failed to engage in due process.

Vitriol- what vitriol? In what way have comments to date in this thread regarding Farage and his stance regarding security astonishing ?

Who knows what daily comments and threats all MPs receive on a daily basis? MPs are required to report such threats to security services for their security and risk assessments to inform their level of security for their MP role. Hopefully Frage has been reporting accordingly?

If Farage has not been reported the daily comments and threats if indeed they are daily regarding his MP role to his security attachment- that would be somewhat remiss of him I would suggest in the politest and none vitriolic way.

It would be sensible to extrapolate which comments and threats Farage has received that relate to his MP role, which to his director role of Reform UK Ltd and which to his broadcasting and all his other financial high profile activities.

Unless he reports them his comments are merely speculative, none evidenced based assertions.

Shabana M has reached out to Farage and offered to meet and discuss- let's hope he takes up the opportunity and starts to engage in a mature, security conscious way and reports his MP threats as required.

GrannyGravy13

I think he has a point regarding his security.

I think the vitriol and comments on here towards NF are astonishing at times.

I wonder what comments and threats he receives on a daily basis from other sources.

Most MP’s face insults on a daily basis, it only takes one determined person to get close enough to them to physically attack or like Ann and two other MPs murder them.

Mmmm Is it vitriol or is it just factual?

I’ve heard lots of MPs being berated on here, not the least our outgoing PM.

Is it that Farage has more criticism thrown at him or is it because he seems to appear in the media himself more than all the other leaders put together and therefore is discussed more?

I don’t mean hounded by the media, I mean having a physical presence by choice.

I agree with Cossy, and state funded security should only be available for state funded MP role

What proportion of his time does Farage spend on public service MP role for Clacton and what proportion on all his other activities here in the UK and abroad?

fancythat

I happened to start my musings on this subject, on another thread, a day or two before the murder of Ann Widdecombe.

On that particular thread, I also brought in the security concerns of Harry and Meghan.

I had happened to start reconsidering the whole issue.

I think it’s perfectly ok to muse and mull things over.

I can understand why anyone who faces threats on a daily basis starts to feel fear and anxiety.

My issue with Reform and Farage, and I may be entirely wrong, is that they appear to love notoriety and publicity above anything else (back in the day they called this “attention seeking”).

Unless the police and any current government have hard evidence of said threats and deeds, it’s extremely hard to distinguish between fact and fiction.

Addition public funds wouldn’t be agreed for any MPs security, unless there was substantial evidence to prove their lives were/are in more danger than their fellow MPs.

It’s not about whether one likes or dislikes Kemi, Ed, Zak or Farage, it’s about whether the evidence is there to back up their claims. It sounds harsh, but this is how life works.

Graphite- an insightful post 14.03 with some rational inferences and legal interpretations- a good explanatory response to David49 I thought.

I am going to avoid speculation on the actual facts and evidence as I/we simply don't know the detail- and the investigators are still investigating. I await further reports and investigation findings with interest in this high profile case.

fancythat

Cossy

I’ve not seen another thread, I do think security for MPs warrants a thread of its own.

ALL serving MPs are already offered paid security via our government, at the same baseline level.

However some maybe offered further security based on criteria, Mr shingle explain this better than I can.

“ While every serving MP receives a baseline level of protection and support, specific allocations differ based on the following:Routine Security: Every MP is offered baseline measures and a dedicated, named police contact under the national Operation Bridger program. This includes security briefings, advice, and standardized physical upgrades to their homes and constituency offices.Enhanced Security: MPs facing higher or more specific threat levels receive elevated measures, which can include panic alarms, active patrols, and manned guarding at public events.Close Protection: Only a select few MPs (such as the Prime Minister, Home Secretary, and certain senior Cabinet members) are automatically granted permanent close protection (e.g., dedicated bodyguards, official cars, and drivers). An individual MP may have their security elevated to this level only if intelligence indicates an exceptional, severe risk.”

Thank you for that.

We can only hope that the MPs who need higher protection levels are granted it.

Sadly, I wouldnt have thought Ann Widdecombe would have been eligible for much.
Not sure how much she would have wanted anyway.

She was still on tv talking politics I believe, and probably still saying controversial things. But I too doubt if she would have wanted more security.

I'm in agreement with MaizieD at 13.57.

Plus vegansrock at 14.00.

It makes absolutely no logical sense why Farage would turn down state funded security for his MP role and top up accordingly to his satisfied level with either Reform funds or personal funds, or through his Thorn in the Side UK Ltd company. After all he is an extremely wealthy man.

Plus the majority of his time and effort is devoted to his high profile media and broadcasting work, Cameo videos, crypto currency and Gold Bullion marketing campaigns and US republican support activity outside the UK ie way outside his public service MP role in the UK

Quite frankly why should the state provide for the majority of Farage's money making ventures and efforts outside his MP role?

The problem with Reform is that it is a not a democratic political party but a very wealthy business with a self-appointed head who cannot be deposed and which trades daily in the politics of grievance.

Its MPs and party entourage follow instructions to do the media rounds, appear on GBNews or tweet material intent on stirring up hatred and division. We know they are following instructions as they all say the same things using the same buzz words. This week the buzz word is establishment. The vitriol in Zia Yusuf’s posts is truly shocking and someone needs to rein him in. He is dangerous.

If you spend every day stirring up hatred and division don’t be surprised when people start to hate you.

David asks why this has been upgraded to terrorism.

As I understand it, the man was initially arrested on suspicion of murder and then rearrested on suspicion of commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.

Commission

This means carrying out or doing the act itself. It refers to the physical violence completed.

Preparation

This covers the steps taken before a violent attack occurs. It includes planning the attack and gathering weapons. You can be found guilty of preparation even if the final attack is never carried out.

Instigation

This means persuading, encouraging, or helping others to carry out terrorist acts. It includes glorifying past attacks, publishing statements that encourage violence, or recruiting others to join a cause.

Note the or in the terms or arrest. He may or may not be suspected of instigation.

What’s makes a murder terrorism? My understanding is that it comes down to motive and intent. While murder is the unlawful killing of a person, terrorism uses violence or the threat of violence specifically to intimidate a civilian population or force a government to change its policies.

I don’t wish to speculate on what has happened here and he hasn’t been charged yet but nothing Ms Widdecombe said or did was going to force the government to change its policies simply because she wasn’t an MP and certainly wasn’t part of government. She was a vocal member of a party which seeks radical change but has limited power beyond making some ministers veer further right in their policies, say on immigration.

Is the civilian population going to be intimidated by her murder? I doubt it. Shocked certainly but not intimated as we know that acts of violence against women are an everyday occurrence. Stranger violence and murder is relatively rare but it does happen.

I would argue there is less likely to be civilian intimidation from this than there is say of crimes committed by men of non-white ethnicity simply because of the street riots that have and may ensue as a result.

If Ms Widdecombe was targeted because of her involvement with Reform that’s going to be very sad because, according to her good friend Roger Gale MP she had no affection for Farage.

Nige could always top up his security with his £5m.

You’re right GrannyGravy13, I think there must a be hundreds or thousands of people who make online threats to public figures though, politicians included, who aren’t otherwise known to the police, and who wouldn’t pose a physical threat, the hardest part would be weeding out the ones who might, and treating them differently to mitigate the risk.

GrannyGravy13

I think he has a point regarding his security.

I think the vitriol and comments on here towards NF are astonishing at times.

I wonder what comments and threats he receives on a daily basis from other sources.

Most MP’s face insults on a daily basis, it only takes one determined person to get close enough to them to physically attack or like Ann and two other MPs murder them.

I don't think he has any point at all. There is actually nothing particularly special about him that puts him at more risk than any other MP, even high profile ones.

As you rightly say, MPs face insults, and often more, on a daily basis. That's all MPs, not just Mr 'I'm a special case' (which he just isn't. And you should see what people say about Sadiq Khan, not even an MP...

The legal, but minor, assaults Farage has experienced, one egging and two milkshake throwing incidents, are not unique to him. I haven't noticed any public figure who has experienced similar screaming loudly and publicly for special treatment. His overweening self importance and desperation for publicity should be ignored, not pandered to.

Farage is a man who so far has survived being hit by a car, testicular cancer, a wheel coming off his car on a French motorway and a plane crash.

I completely fail to see how any of these qualify him for publicly funded security.

Casdon

GrannyGravy13

I think he has a point regarding his security.

I think the vitriol and comments on here towards NF are astonishing at times.

I wonder what comments and threats he receives on a daily basis from other sources.

Most MP’s face insults on a daily basis, it only takes one determined person to get close enough to them to physically attack or like Ann and two other MPs murder them.

Is there evidence that social media bandits go on to carry out physical violence on politicians though? I don’t know the answer, but I always imagine the vitriolic posters to be a different group of people, who don’t pose a physical threat, but get their very weird kicks from knowing they are frightening their target.

I do not know the statistics either Casdon but as I posted it only takes one

Similar to the anti-terrorist police, they have to be accurate every time in order to stop any bombings/attacks, the terrorist only has to get lucky once…

*I also think MPs, politicians, police commissioners, people prominent in the public eye- e.g. on line influencers and celebrities etc etc also need to take some accountability for their mode and content of oral and online communication.

They responsibly need to understand and then make an informed decision to tread the right side of free speech laws and not err onto the malicious, divisive and provocative communications side and not incite violence, racial hatred, civil disobedience, interference with police investigations, spreading false rumours etc.*

I agree with that.

There are hate crime and incitement to violence offences that sometimes politicians are very close to violating - free speech is important but needs to be within the bounds of the law.

GrannyGravy13

I think he has a point regarding his security.

I think the vitriol and comments on here towards NF are astonishing at times.

I wonder what comments and threats he receives on a daily basis from other sources.

Most MP’s face insults on a daily basis, it only takes one determined person to get close enough to them to physically attack or like Ann and two other MPs murder them.

Is there evidence that social media bandits go on to carry out physical violence on politicians though? I don’t know the answer, but I always imagine the vitriolic posters to be a different group of people, who don’t pose a physical threat, but get their very weird kicks from knowing they are frightening their target.