Police launch an investigation into Ann Widdecombe death

Devon and Cornwall Police had earlier ruled out a terrorist motive and sought to reassure the public over the weekend that the alleged murder did not appear to be politically motivated.

The investigation progressed and new information and evidence came to light and the suspect was rearrested on suspicion of commission, preparation or instigation of terrorism now covered by Terrorist Act PACE Code H- different arrest, different detention powers, different detention high security location.

Evidently it's a complex enquiry with twists and turns as new information comes to light.

Terrorism Act- PACE Code H- gives 14 days to interview and investigate the arrested person on suspicion grounds (not allowed under PACE Code C) and a call has gone out for anyone to come forward who may have any information.

Primrose53

TerriBull

I posted this on one of the other threads regarding this awful murder, but worth repeating because an illustration of just how hateful this element of the trans lobby are. Over on MN a link to X, Heather Herbert transwoman crowing over AW's murder, "I hope it was painful" What a vile person, I hope they get a visit from the police, but I won't hold my breath.

Heather Herbert is a transgender activist who stood as a Labour Party candidate and later joined the Green Party.
thank you TerriBull.

Cannot believe that the Police say there was no criminality involved in this trans person’s shocking comments about Ann Widdecombe’s murder. Heather Herbert says she stands by what he/she said.

Lucy Connolly was sent to prison for her comments about immigrants which she deleted very soon after posting.

They did not at any point rule out terrorism as a possible motive.

The police also said the situation is not being treated as a terrorist incident after consulting with counter-terror policing as part of "initial enquiries"

That is a rule out as far as I am concerned.

personally, I think there is a big difference between those MPs who disappear from Politics, and those that essentially dont.

She left Parliament in 2010- so was last an MP 16 years ago. Is there a suggestion MP state funded security should continue after they leave offer for many years into late 70s and beyond?

She’s the third mp (retired in her case) to be murdered. Our mp has rape and death threats and lives in the constituency. It must be terrifying and seems another reason to think carefully before entering politics

I think at some point, (not now) there does need to be a further discussion about MPs safety ( I know she wasn't currently a MP) and the impact this will have on the number of people who would now want to take on this role.

Thanks eazybee and Lemon Jam and anyone else who posted facts about complex investigations like this one. The police will have, understandably, been under seige, under pressure to release updates, hold press conferences. I’m surprised at criticism that on the initial evidence it wasn’t seen as terrorist related. On the basis of further evidence, the conclusion shifted.
Our police involved in this murder enquiry will be desperate to get it right

Plus Designated Magistrates Court for TACT suite detainees will hear extension request over the weekend- local Magistrates courts usually closed.

advisors = adverse

Cossy

fancythat/eazybee

I think the police should have initially kept very quiet about what they did or didn’t think about this murder.

All I will say is I hope that they’ve caught the right person, and Terrorism covers quite a large remit including political elements.

Whatever the reason it seems the act of a very evil and disturbed mind, and if indeed it turns out to be political, how very sad to pick on a retired MP in her own home!

The Police and Counter terrorism services are not in competition- they are complementary - but different legislation applies to each during investigation.

Most normal/standard crimes are initially reported to the police who conduct an investigation under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act - PACE Code C legislation. The crime stays with the Police service if evidence suggests the crime is standard. The local police services have 24 hours only to detain someone without charge. They need sufficient evidence to charge- you can not charge on suspicion alone . PACE allows an extension up to 96 hours- an extension approval, early stage by a Police Superintendent and then magistrates court. They can then release on bail whilst investigation ongoing with conditions or unconditional. Suspects are held in standard local police custody suite. If a charge can not be established within the maximum 96 hours, bail is likely outcome- risk.

As an earlier poster said, in crimes such as this, with huge public interest, and involving a politician, it's a fine line how much info the police decide to release ie enough to stop feverish on line and public speculation that can have advisors consequences. The police released information according to the evidence they had at the time- with that aim in mind no doubt.

At some stage the local police likely must found evidence that suggested the crime could possibly be "counter terrorism crime" related ie not standard, (which is wide range). It doesn't not need to be an evidence based established fact possible suspicion is enough.

At that stage the local police realise there is a huge benefit in handing over the ongoing investigation to Counter-Terrorism
(CT) Services.

Benefits: CT Crime is not covered just by PACE legislation but Terrorism Act 2000- PACE Code H As a result they have 48 hours before judicial extension required (via a designated Magistrates Court) and then 14 days detention time to hold suspect solely on suspicion ( no charge required) whilst enquiries and gathering evidence continues. There is no provision for pre charge bail under Terrorism Act whcih reduces release on bail risk. The suspect is almost always, if not always, held in a secret location, high security TACT custody suite not a local police station.

This keeps a suspect in a high security TACT suite and media at bay in high profile crimes and longer to investigate before charge needed. They can interview many, many times over 14 days and the suspect is away from other standard police custody suite detained individuals.

The benefit to the detained person in a TACT custody suite? better, larger more comfortable cell plus better food.

Well her death has created nothing but contempt in this house for whoever are behind it.
I know any publicity is good publicity, but killing a defenceless 79 year old woman??

Ann Widdecombe was very well known, a public figure who still aroused strong emotions, easily accessible, lived alone but unlikely to have police protection.

And her death has created a huge stir; massive publicity for whoever or whatever sick minds are behind it.

I don’t believe, even for one second, that there’s any conspiracy or cover up.

I do still think should not have released quite so much information early on, but then again they are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

To me it’s still a very puzzling murder.

Galaxy

I find this increasingly bizarre, if you are going to target a politician, Ann Widdecombe is one of the last people you would choose. She wasn't in government, she ( and I am not trying to be hurtful here) didn't have an enormous amount of influence, it is all utterly baffling.
Perhaps I am trying to make sense of someone who wasn't thinking in the way most of us do.

I feel the same. All extremely odd!

The police said nothing wrong. They did not at any point rule out terrorism as a possible motive. They reported on the basis of the information they had gathered, at each point a statement was made. I suggest you read every police statement to verify that, because you clearly don’t believe me.

You are absolutely correct, Casdon. The Police reports were very carefully worded; they stated only what factual information they possessed at that time. They did not dismiss the idea of terrorism or political motivation, simply said at one point they were keeping an open mind.As soon as fresh evidence was discovered they announced a change in the leadership of the investigation to that of Counter Terrorism.
No cover-up as some posters seem to imply.

JaneJudge

Galaxy

I find this increasingly bizarre, if you are going to target a politician, Ann Widdecombe is one of the last people you would choose. She wasn't in government, she ( and I am not trying to be hurtful here) didn't have an enormous amount of influence, it is all utterly baffling.
Perhaps I am trying to make sense of someone who wasn't thinking in the way most of us do.

someone said this at work today, why Ann?

Low-hanging fruit?

fancythat

^I think the police should have initially kept very quiet about what they did or didn’t think about this murder.^

Cossy, yes.

In an ideal world, yes. In the UK at the moment, no.

BoggledMind

Releasing information is a balancing act that is difficult to get right.

Whenever something big happens, the info vultures immediately start circling, eyes peeled for the slightest titbit. If the police keep quiet, they demand to know why the police aren't feeding them something. If the police do say something based on what they know at the time, and that later turns out wrong due to information subsequently received, the vultures then complain they've been fed incorrect info.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

At the end of the day, the police can only talk about what they know at any given time. And that can change if and when new information is received.

If the police do say something based on what they know at the time, and that later turns out wrong due to information subsequently received, the vultures then complain they've been fed incorrect info.

They're doing just this on Facebook. Each poster 'congratulating' the other. One says, "I notice they keep stressing xxx or xyz". "Yeah", says another, "so right, what are they hiding?"

I've refrained from commenting that it's vultures like them that are causing this because the police are afraid they'll swoop on Dartmoor or wherever, demanding to know "the truth", if they are not fed sufficient information.

Galaxy

I find this increasingly bizarre, if you are going to target a politician, Ann Widdecombe is one of the last people you would choose. She wasn't in government, she ( and I am not trying to be hurtful here) didn't have an enormous amount of influence, it is all utterly baffling.
Perhaps I am trying to make sense of someone who wasn't thinking in the way most of us do.

someone said this at work today, why Ann?

Cossy

Chestnut I see you may think from my use of both I thought it was two people, I meant I hope the person is question is both arrested and dismissed from work.

In the workplace at which I volunteer, staff and volunteers may choose either 'he', 'she' or 'they' if they wish to add a pronoun to their security pass.

Fallingstar

I feel that whoever made such sick and sadistic comments should be arrested for hate speech.
I really can’t imagine why anyone would say this.

I hope they get the sack, too.

Releasing information is a balancing act that is difficult to get right.

Whenever something big happens, the info vultures immediately start circling, eyes peeled for the slightest titbit. If the police keep quiet, they demand to know why the police aren't feeding them something. If the police do say something based on what they know at the time, and that later turns out wrong due to information subsequently received, the vultures then complain they've been fed incorrect info.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

At the end of the day, the police can only talk about what they know at any given time. And that can change if and when new information is received.

I find this increasingly bizarre, if you are going to target a politician, Ann Widdecombe is one of the last people you would choose. She wasn't in government, she ( and I am not trying to be hurtful here) didn't have an enormous amount of influence, it is all utterly baffling.
Perhaps I am trying to make sense of someone who wasn't thinking in the way most of us do.

It has been confirmed that he was not known to Prevent.