Extreme Right Wing Views

Can someone please correct me if I am wrong here, but wasn't Ann Widdecombe murdered by a man who had far left views?

At the risk of indulging in whataboutism, this happens on the left and right.

It's social media. It's YouTube. Social contagion is a thing.

And for a young guy, where so many young people seem isolated in their bedrooms staring at a screen, this could create extremist fantasy views of the world.

I guarantee Zuckerberg would argue his case for being a bastion of free speech...

That post reminded me of my daughter and my grandson. He wasn’t allowed to have toy guns,either but, as with butterandjam he made them out of sticks and ran around with those. He is a very peaceful, dare I say, left leaning man now who loves animals and works as a carpenter.

butterandjam

Wyllow3

I hadn't heard of that flag either tho it does look a bit nasty could pass as an abstract - checked it out and its almost worse than a swastica in meaning. The 14 year old knew all right.

One still wonders - what on earth in his life had led him to this obsession?

He's a boy.

My little boys were not allowed toy guns ; so they made them out of sticks. They all went through phases of action man toys and military games, knives, sleeping out in bivouacs, gangs, being "tough", fires, dirt, falling off bikes , scary games in the woods and endless wrestling around on the floor. All their friends did the same. All living out boy fun and fantasies in person, at home or nearby, with limits. When rough play resulted in harm they actually felt real pain or fear. When ours broke rules, took risks or did dangerous stuff the evidence was usually so immediately obvious to us adults, we could intervene, advise, correct. They had no internet, their only exposure to other peoples fantasy on screen was Startrek and Dr Who. On TV in the family living room , around us.

A very different world from young boys exploring their developing testosterone and masculinity today. Everything they never imagined is right there on a personal screen in their bedroom or pocket and kids don't always know how much of it is real, true or not. Excitement, thrills, even danger, without fear or pain or consequence. Online fantasy based on death, violence and destruction. What 14 yr old Alfie Coleman was exposed to on screen in the secrecy of his bedroom, is provided by adults and easily available to nearly all teens. :-(

Good post.

When I was a teen, a lot of lads who took history were really interested in the Nazis and the Second World War. We had granparents who had lived through it, saw the rise of Hilter in the 1930s, and the television was full of war films., so it was a big interest. I used to warch every documentary, read every book and watch every film about World War 2 and Hitler.
Yet for most of us, except one guy who ended up in the National Front until he saw how wrong it was, it was an interest. None of us had any sympathy for the Nazis and we were all made aware in history lessons how terrible the Nazis were. Then wr discovered girls and pubs and moved on.

David49

Challenging all extreme views is important Left and Right, respecting others rights, not trying to impose your views on others.
It's not just about politics, pressure groups in every direction are trying to change society. The way we allow children to access adult material on the media has changed society for the worse.

I agree with you there. Extreme left wingers are as dangerous and unpleasant as their counterparts as are extremist ‘religious’ people. Teachers especially should refrain from sharing whatever political stances they might hold. That is how it was once, we were actually told that in the old days of teacher training.

Groups looking to radicalise others always look for vulnerable people and are sophisticated in how they "groom" them, gain their trust or compliance. IMO there's no difference between those with extreme political, racial or religious views or indeed whether they are on the right or left of politics. They are all a danger to our young people and to our society and our reaction should always be the same, absolute rejection. Young people can be "vulnerable" for all sorts of reasons and tbh I dislike the "parent's are to blame" attitude unless there is concrete evidence that they have actively known about the radicalisation of their child. Anyone who has had children will understand that it is extremely difficult to know what is going on in their teenage life if they choose to keep it secret and even when "clues" are there, parents don't always recognise them for what they are. Mental illness or neurodiversity is not an excuse for criminal behaviour but it can make teenagers especially vulnerable.

Challenging all extreme views is important Left and Right, respecting others rights, not trying to impose your views on others.
It's not just about politics, pressure groups in every direction are trying to change society. The way we allow children to access adult material on the media has changed society for the worse.

I completely agree.

The impact upon us all of extreme right wing beliefs and behaviour is incredibly dangerous for everyone. We all stand to lose everything this country ought to be proud of and do what we can to protect.

Freedom of speech, democracy and tolerance being just three of these things, that we have supposed to have stood for, but I fear that these extreme right wing views will, and have already started to weaken.

Many of us are old enough to remember older family members who fought and died, or fought and were maimed for life, or who were deeply, and painfully affected through their experiences of war. So many who sacrificed so much in order for us to live safely, with freedom of thought and ‘reasonable’ deed, as well as being able to value the importance of kindness and understand those worse off than ourselves. Some may think that this history no longer shapes our world. But that is simply not true.

How many of us can think of families who having lost so much during the Second World War, had their lives changed adversely and permanently as a result, that affected the children of that family, which would have inevitably impacted upon the way they developed as adults, and how they were able to function as adults, even on how they were able to parent their own children?

So, challenging extreme right wing views, IS so very important, and always will be. Our lives will suffer, as will that have our children and our grandchildren if we do not. I for one will never accept such vile beliefs as being reasonable. I hope and pray with all my heart that others will also do what they can to challenge the terrible consequences of extreme right wing views.

Thank you.

Is there a way to persuade/force Internet providers to remove harmful content?

DS wasnt really interested, but I take the point, generally, as I have absolutely its no doubt its partly related to violent video games.

Wyllow3

I hadn't heard of that flag either tho it does look a bit nasty could pass as an abstract - checked it out and its almost worse than a swastica in meaning. The 14 year old knew all right.

One still wonders - what on earth in his life had led him to this obsession?

He's a boy.

My little boys were not allowed toy guns ; so they made them out of sticks. They all went through phases of action man toys and military games, knives, sleeping out in bivouacs, gangs, being "tough", fires, dirt, falling off bikes , scary games in the woods and endless wrestling around on the floor. All their friends did the same. All living out boy fun and fantasies in person, at home or nearby, with limits. When rough play resulted in harm they actually felt real pain or fear. When ours broke rules, took risks or did dangerous stuff the evidence was usually so immediately obvious to us adults, we could intervene, advise, correct. They had no internet, their only exposure to other peoples fantasy on screen was Startrek and Dr Who. On TV in the family living room , around us.

A very different world from young boys exploring their developing testosterone and masculinity today. Everything they never imagined is right there on a personal screen in their bedroom or pocket and kids don't always know how much of it is real, true or not. Excitement, thrills, even danger, without fear or pain or consequence. Online fantasy based on death, violence and destruction. What 14 yr old Alfie Coleman was exposed to on screen in the secrecy of his bedroom, is provided by adults and easily available to nearly all teens. :-(

I hadn't heard of that flag either tho it does look a bit nasty could pass as an abstract - checked it out and its almost worse than a swastica in meaning. The 14 year old knew all right.

One still wonders - what on earth in his life had led him to this obsession?

Many people with extreme Right views aren't always obvious. The days of racist skinheads strutting around the streets and National Front marches are long gone. Most right wing extremists organise online, use nicknames and codewords, and meet up in private. They often never mention their views to their friends or workmates and can appear completely normal.

Never heard of it,either. Sheltered life, obviously.

Galaxy

There were numerous items in the room, swastika, a knife, flag, etc etc.

Here's his flag. I've never seen a black sun flag . How many parents seeing this on their kids bedroom wall , would recognise what it represents, and be alarmed? Not me.

<https://www.military-print.co.uk/product/a-black-sun-flag/>

It is just a good thing he was caught before he actually killed someone.

Plevey08

This is a tragic and frightening example of a boy from age 14 pursuing these extreme ideologies. Most people with autism live successful lives and contribute to society, despite coping and managing in a neurotypical world. However I just think it shows how little ongoing specialist support there is for young people diagnosed with autism. His parents should have done more by screaming from the rooftops about what he was doing. But they were probably completely worn down by his obsession and, yes I'm speculating here, but he was likely ruling the roost at home. It's also very likely they tried to get help but sadly there is very little ongoing support and excellence of care to support the family. Until it is recognised that these young people need early and continual intervention it will continue.

To the outside world, he presented as a normal teenager who enjoyed gaming and worked at his local Tesco supermarket. (BBC) He had no previous convictions, the knives were purchased when he was 18 and were not illegal.

Hardly an out of control tearaway.

Galaxy

There were numerous items in the room, swastika, a knife, flag, etc etc.

Yes, on show

There were numerous items in the room, swastika, a knife, flag, etc etc.

GrannyGravy13

As he had right wing items on show in his bedroom, where on earth were his parents?

The right wing documents and information were just downloaded on his computer. Not "on show" .

Galaxy

I have absolutely no idea whose fault it is. But that is one possibility. In the way that the parents of the Southport killer were deemed partly culpable.

I guess if we were to look for “blame” it would be the individual or group who “groomed” this young man and ultimately “brainwashed” him in a cult-like manner.

It’s a difficult and horrifying situation.

Wyllow3

The problem here is where - and is there - is the sort of place a young man can be sent to try and achieve these aims?

A very expensive intensive endeavour, is it worth it compared with other needs? (genuine point, not point scoring)

For I agree at 14 it should be tried, for any kind of extreme radicalisation.

And what measures does one take, for example, banning visitors who want to radicalise? forbid the internet? What to do all day?

And therein lies the rub!

It’s scary and I have no answers! 😢😢🫣🫣

The problem here is where - and is there - is the sort of place a young man can be sent to try and achieve these aims?

A very expensive intensive endeavour, is it worth it compared with other needs? (genuine point, not point scoring)

For I agree at 14 it should be tried, for any kind of extreme radicalisation.

And what measures does one take, for example, banning visitors who want to radicalise? forbid the internet? What to do all day?

In terms of him “improving as he matures” radicalisation” is effectively brainwashing, this young man will need to be “de-radicalise”, then probably undertake years of therapy. It’s not pretty sad and very scary. Then there’s the not insignificant task of attempting to track and shutdown the group that targeted this young man.

sazz1

He's definitely not very intelligent trying to buy a gun from an Internet chat room. People who buy guns buy from people they know face to face or other gang members imo. It's quite obvious that police join and monitor chat rooms for illegal activities and tg they do.
Hopefully he will improve as he matures and realise what he was planning to do is really terrible. He's young so there is hope for reform.

I have zero idea how people purchase guns? Any one else here know this?

I wouldn’t have the first idea.

I don’t think it’s any kind of reflection on his intelligence, it’s great it was picked up BUT these chat rooms open, shut and move very rapidly, this is why things aren’t always picked up.

We simply don’t have anywhere close to enough specialised police to monitor all chat rooms where illegal activity may or may not be discussed.

My understanding is that more often than not “bogus” chat rooms are set up in sting operations to help track down this kind of activity and other activity such as child exploitation.