Govt announces Ukrainian style scheme to bring thousands more migrants to UK

Personally I am happy that genuine refugees have always had, when needful, support for the most appalling traumas, from us as UK hosts. Indeed, I know of one incredible nurse in the sector who witnessed, going back, the whole of her family killed in front of her, now working for the NHS.

but I wanted to move us back to general issues because I was so struck by the lovely walk at 7pm ish in my local park, which is always multi cultural and at the weekends lots of families come and have family picnics and I always look to see how the stereotypes of our incoming citizens match the reality.

The 14 year old girl in black, a headscarf, kicking a football around, very skilled. Other girls on the footie pitch with brothers or cricketMost little girls, no headscarf, running and giggling up trees and over the play sessions. A warm chat with a young woman pushing this gorgeous newborn in a pushchair.

A couple of girls in late teens actually untraditional dress giggling away and I overheard the conversation, which resembled that of any late teens we might here

'OMG!!!! He didnt say that! Did he!!! (giggle giggle). Not a single family where women trailed behind husbands (unless the were up for a natter with family or friends. Women only boating in the swan cycles in the lake, or with elderly Dad in the back.

What actually struck me was how cohesive some of the larger families were, the support systems, the tendency to live locally and maintain structures to benefit disability and aging.

I do regret coming across so strongly MT62, since I too in my personal life have had family suicides and coped with an Ex whose serious condition led him to abuse me over some years, and I am as well as a trained psychotherapist and worked in the field:
I too am a "customer" as was my sis and friends around me.

but, M62

the context was what you said a page back

as in

"Well that’s just it Catswhiskas, we have enough vile, creatures of our own in this country without bringing in even more vile, sexual predators, a lot with metal health"

You probably therefore know more than most the dangers of using this label to generalise and link "Mental Health" with "sexual predators" with no other explanation.

But its also confusing since the term "Mental Health" doesn't even mean "Mental illness"

never mind the essential distinguishing between what has happened to your family and to you and to those with a serious psychotic or very serious personality disorder condition that may lead to acting out sexuality inappropriately or to act violently.
We know for example that far more people with psychosis take their own life than attack others.

Wyllow3

No MT62

Sigh. You really dont listen, do you? I have just told you that in my working life I worked in the Mental Heath sector. Its not correct or even makes any sense to say "A person has Mental Health"

You have described some people above who have Mental Heath problems. Having "Mental Health" per se is utterly meaningless.

a good AI quote on this

"Saying 'I have mental health' can accidentally sound like "I have good mental health," which is why clinicians and mental health advocates often recommend using more precise terms like "mental ill-health," "mental illness," or naming the specific condition (like anxiety or depression) if the person feels comfortable.

It's actually, in the context we are talking about, far better to be specific A person with relatively mild depression will not drive a van into people. a person with severe depression is more likely to self harm or take their own life.

Please don’t be patronising wyllow3. I have explained to grey fur what MH is as she doesn’t seem to know.
I too worked in MH for twenty years.
I also looked after my sister, who after suffering ‘postpartum depression’, after an extremely tough birth, later treated with SSRIs, went on to have full blown mania.
Later diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
We as a family struggled with the ups & downs.
Later on she went on to take her own life. I myself have struggled to come to terms with that, resulting in me suffering depression.
So please keep your tuts & sighs to yourself.
I was merely saying MH as a general term.

Maremia

As I said upthread, there are more ways of helping asylum seekers than offering to have them in your home.
You are not required to be an actual host.
To suggest that is the only way to do it is indeed strange.
Church organisations provide assistance and support.
If you belong to a Christian organisation you will be aware of and perhaps have supported such programmes.
Other religions have their versions of charity.
People with no belief have non denominational organisation they may wish to support.
Lots of ways to help.

🫶👏👏👏👏👏

No MT62

Sigh. You really dont listen, do you? I have just told you that in my working life I worked in the Mental Heath sector. Its not correct or even makes any sense to say "A person has Mental Health"

You have described some people above who have Mental Heath problems. Having "Mental Health" per se is utterly meaningless.

a good AI quote on this

"Saying 'I have mental health' can accidentally sound like "I have good mental health," which is why clinicians and mental health advocates often recommend using more precise terms like "mental ill-health," "mental illness," or naming the specific condition (like anxiety or depression) if the person feels comfortable.

It's actually, in the context we are talking about, far better to be specific A person with relatively mild depression will not drive a van into people. a person with severe depression is more likely to self harm or take their own life.

Maremia

It's for you.

I have a name

If it’s meant for me, I have already answered Greyfur’s question regarding what is ‘mental health’ she doesn’t seem to know, or is just being clever!

It's for you.

Maremia

Would you not be better to answer that question, because only you know exactly what you mean in a post?
Anything else is a guess.

Who’s that question ment for maremia?

greyfur

What is a person with mental health please?

A person that can’t cope with the pressures & stresses of day to day living.
Can be from mild depression to a full blown, psychological breakdown.
But I think you already know that.

Would you not be better to answer that question, because only you know exactly what you mean in a post?
Anything else is a guess.

greyfur

What is a person with mental health please?

So wyllow3 what are you trying to say? That I am putting people down who have mental health?

sago I do remember reading about errors and pedantry you wrote about and it being upsetting -its just that for anyone working in the Mental heath sector or having problems in that regard, its really is a no no. Red flag, for a number of reasons. Important to get it right for those of us in those categories.

Sago

greyfur

What is a person with mental health please?

Another pedant.

You know full well what is meant.

No. greyfur, imo, is quite right to pick that up. We all have 'Mental Heath".

Some people have mild Mental illness or Mental Heath problems, some people have serious Mental Health problems.
Few of us have perfect "Mental Heath" Its not pedantry,

Its actually just meaningless and usually used pejoratively.

Didn’t those 3 police forces in those child sex exploitation cases also view the girls as child prostitutes? Horrendous failing.

Primrose53

Baronness Casey’s report revealed that in two thirds of cases ethnicity was NOT recorded.

Didn’t her audit collect data as far back as 2009? Didn’t those three police forces shy away from doing what they were required to do? It’s now mandatory in PACE and in my experience it’s complied with now.

greyfur

What is a person with mental health please?

Another pedant.

You know full well what is meant.

What is a person with mental health please?

fancythat

^Time our own homeless, veterans & people with mental health came first. Shocking how they are overlooked & don’t say they aren’t because they are.^

They are not victim enough any more.

How true 😞

..and she therefore concluded that ethnicity data could not be used to draw accurate conclusions on a national scale

Baronness Casey’s report revealed that in two thirds of cases ethnicity was NOT recorded.

Why not wait to find out exactly what happened before judging?

I think we know the answer to that don’t we!

Sago

greyfur

foxie48

Sago the question I asked which you haven't answered was,
"if currently the ethnicity of criminals isn't recorded, what makes you think immigration is relevant? "
Actually the Ministry of Justice does collect information on the ethnicity of prisoners but it does not record immigration status. There isn't any evidence to suggest that immigrants, "illegal" or otherwise commit more crimes than British nationals but perhaps when they are convicted of a crime it is possible that this is more widely reported in the media? If you find anything that provides evidence that "immigrants" commit more crimes, if you attach a link, I will, of course, read it.

I suppose if you believe something, it's easy enough to find evidence to back up your thoughts.

While the MoJ does collect this data, tracking ethnicity is not mandatory. As a result, the statistics face several notable gaps:Missing Ethnicity Records: Approximately 33% to 36% of defendants' ethnicities are listed as "unknown" at the Crown Court and magistrates' courts. This frequently occurs in less serious offences handled via the Single Justice Procedure.Immigration and Status: The Ministry of Justice does not routinely publish comprehensive breakdowns of all crime perpetrators categorized by strict immigration status or nationality.Offender Characteristics vs. VictimizationThe MoJ focuses on the demographic characteristics of defendants and convicted offenders. In contrast, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) measures crime from the victim's perspective using the Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW).

Tracking Ethnicity is in fact mandatory at all stages of Criminal Justice System

Under PACE- Police and Criminal Evidence Act- it is mandatory in England and Wales to record the ethnicity of an arrested person, both SDE- Self Defined Ethnicity AND Officer Identified Ethnicity. The police also document an arrested person- usually photograph, finger prints, DNA but can also include, none intimate body search, intimate body search, blood samples, finger nail clippings etc etc. They take mobile phones from detained person which they send to down load to look for evidence. If a person refuses to provide their ethnicity Officer Identified Ethnicity will be available.

The arrested detained person has access to free legal advice via a duty solicitor and an interpreter if needed- all this helps identify ethnicity if DP withholds- which in my experience they hardly ever do.

The Police pass this information to the Crown Prosecution Service who then makes the decision whether to prosecute and also logs SIE and OIE ethnicity data.

The number of individuals prosecuted and convicted is recorded and ethnicity data recorded.

Various crimes are broken down further in the same way, e.g. rape., e.g for rape offences.

Ethnicity is mandatory to record as a convicted person enters prison also.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg0yekk2vko

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze0xr9g5lno

Crashes involving pedestrians happen frequently in London, sometimes deliberately, sometimes not. Two recent examples attached. Police have said they do not believe yesterday’s crash was terrorism related. Why not wait to find out exactly what happened before judging?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

My point about the British born Somalian male who drove into 3 people in London yesterday demonstrates (to me) the mindset of some migrants who, not born here, wish us harm - even when welcomed. It worries me how vulnerable any of us could be. Wrong place, wrong time.

A person who has a criminal mindset has a criminal mindset. Every country in the world has criminals including plenty of British born and bred.

Just on Friday in Manchester- 13 men were charged with abusing a woman drugged by her husband- reporting restrictions were lifted and their names, identities, jobs and photos available to view- predominantly white British.

What has the British born Somali male you mention got to do with the proposed refugee scheme being pu before parliament next week?