Lest we forget what we have just lost ....

Well said Luckygirl3
Agree with every word.
Its shameful.

Maremia

Yes, MOnica, the election result was a good effective use of tactical voting .
But, there was a lot of undeniable 'joy' when the big change was achieved.

The joy was at getting rid of the Conservatives, not of greeting Labour with any enthusiasm.

Part of Labour's problems since the last election has been that it convinced itself that it was in power because everyone loved it, when a more realistic belief that they were only there because the other parties were wanted even less, might have given them the chance to become a reasonably good government.

Unfortunately, they harmed industry with tax changes so many of the changes to benefits are not really affordable. They have also abolished Green Belt.

I was so hopeful of Starmer's leadership. Everyone credits him with being a decent person, a man of good faith, in contrast to certain predecessors.
And it is true that there have been major achievements. But the early mistakes, the withdrawal of WFA (U-turned), the double whammy for businesses of increases in NI and minimum wage, have dogged him and Rachel Reeves. And the U-turns, a weak look.
The Mandelson appointment looked clever at the time but came back to bite him.
And he didn't do enough schmoozing with his MPs, like all of them with big egos which need stroking.
I suppose Andy Burnhsm (of course it's chummy Andy) will be better at keeping the MPs on side. I think he's more of a chsncer, but I do wish him success because the possible alternatives,are worse.

I think most of the people who are against Starmer ignore any achievements whilst he has been Prime Minister simply because he doesn't shout loudly enough about what he has done. Plus what people see as his ineffective stance against illegal immigration, which apparently have been reasonably effective so far. He's only been in office for 2 years and whoever takes over as Prime Minister will still have to deal with the same problems. This recent habit of changing Prime Ministers without giving them the chance to sort out the mess we were in makes us a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

Personally I have never been a particular fan of Starmer but at least he seems to be a decent, intelligent human being, Andy Burnham gives me the impression of being a career politician who is more interested in being in the top job than on what it entails. Only time will tell.

Madgran77

Well an obvious one would be the rising unemployment; employers not taking on new staff; cutting staff numbers hence redundancies; not taking on youngsters/school leavers; reduction in starter jobs; hence increasing numbers of NEETS.

I am not going to join in a back and forth on this; its pointless. I absolutely get the point of what the OP says and certainly see benefits but I think it is relevant to look at the wider impact as well as the headline. Where is the strategic joined up thinking to counter negative consequences when new policies are brought in? Sadly in my view that has been missing or at the very least has been too slow hence much bigger negative impacts of positive policies than was necessary.

I know that I keep on and on about this to the point of annoying everyone, but this is all the result of adhering to an economic ideology. Neoliberal economic ideology took hold in the 1980s. Very much due to the influence of Ronald Reagan, who had no economic credentials whatsoever, and his faithful acolyte, Thatcher, who also had no economic credentials and regarded the nation as a household on a small budget which she had to look after very carefully. It is now globally pervasive.
We can see by its results globally that it doesn't work for most of a country's citizens as it channels wealth upwards and increases inequality, not only of wealth but of the access to services such as education and the law which seriously adversely affects the life chances of those who can't pay for them.

Neoliberalism is the belief that:

Markets know best.
Government is largely a problem.
Public provision is inherently inefficient,
Taxation is a burden,
Economic success is best judged by the rate at which GDP grows.

These points can be expanded by anyone who cares to ask questions about them.

Every single UK government since 1980, including the current one has been run according to these principles. They are destroying public services, keeping people poor and causing huge resentment, loss of trust in government and a desperate search for someone to blame for their situation. A search which is being gleefully exploited by the prime beneficiaries of neoliberalism, the wealthy and super wealthy.

I thought that our potential next PM recognised this with his talk about reversing 40 years of neoliberalism, but sadly, his rumoured choices of cabinet colleagues, staff and advisors, not to mention his apparent promise not to change the basis of the current economic policy, those ridiculous 'fiscal rules' , seem to indicate that he has no more understanding of the cause of the UK's problems than most other people and no room to radically change.

I think we'll continue in the same old way but with a more upbeat and focussed face at the helm.

Cronesrule

I liked KS because he seems decent and has integrity. The list of his government’s achievements is impressive. OK some things had a downside but you cannot please all the people all of the time. In the end, he was ousted because the right wing media had it in for him, as they do all PMs but especially Labour. I despair of the Labour MPs who did not support him. Not keen on Burnham; seems like a bit of a throwback and a whiner. But let’s hope if he gets the job he makes a good go of it!

Tend to agree with this.

Someone commented about people now finding it too easy to 'throw a sicky' now - I'd prefer someone with covid or other infectious disease to stay home and not be forced to work by financial pressures.

There’s a lot he’s done which I don’t agree with. I don’t think anybody should pay for primary or secondary education. Loading costs for employers was shortsighted and every one suffers including the low paid. Removing the benefit cap was a mistake although I do think there should be targeted help for families within the education system to see that they get fed, clothed, etc properly. The rent rules changing weren’t all bad but they are now talking about all rental properties having heat pumps. On that basis we will sell. We have updated all our properties with the recommended energy Efficient boilers already and just cannot afford the new technology.
I would never have voted for Starmer but do recognise he was a relatively calm hand on the tiller.

He told my MP who is very upset about what has happened to stop being grumpy ( not said in a nasty way but as a way of comforting her) it’s all about the Party. Even now all he cares about is the Labour movement. I wish I was as nice and forgiving as he is. ( but I’m not!)

Moii Your point about benefits being exploited by a minority of people has been a problem for a very long time and is nothing to do with Labour.
It is very important to remember that it us a minority. When I was a social worker I saw far more people who were not getting the benefits they needed and were entitled to thannpepple who were exploiting the system. Exceptions are not a good basis for policy making.

Every single UK government since 1980, including the current one has been run according to these principles. They are destroying public services, keeping people poor and causing huge resentment, loss of trust in government and a desperate search for someone to blame for their situation. A search which is being gleefully exploited by the prime beneficiaries of neoliberalism, the wealthy and super wealthy.
Thatcher has so.much to answer.

I think Starmer was misguided to have been trying to appease the far right .. he did not do enough to move away from what had gone before.

But he was starting to make inroads and now he has been stopped in his tracks.

If we persist in crumbling under the media-led demands for instant results or you are out, no sound long term policies can be enacted.

Instant gratification is the name of the game and it is getting us nowhere.

He was chosen by Labour Together a think tank by Josh Simmons McSweeny Mandelson given hundreds of thousands of £s not declared to crush the left. He is authoritarian no polices for change same neoliberal economics. The five words he used 'Isreal does have that right' interview on LBC before becoming PM about withholding water power in the siege. He participated in the genocide giving more arms 2025 than in the three previous years. Thousands of hours of spy planes flying over Isreal giving Israel intel diplomatic cover. Rolling out red carpet to Isreal president while banning speakers in support of Palestine from entering the country, Ignoring international law.

He is the only PM to reject the most Jewish people from Labour if they were anti racist in supporting Palistinians people.

That's why many voted Green or not voted Labour.

I totally agree. The right wing media have a lot to answer for.

LizzieDrip

Luckgir13

Thank you so much for starting this thread. The list of Keir Starmer’s achievements as PM are truly impressive.

As you say, the media and his own MPs have hounded him out because of ‘charisma’ (whatever that is)🤷‍♀️

Johnson apparently had ‘charisma’ - that went didn’t it!

Farage apparently has ‘charisma’ - enough said!

IMO we have just got rid of the most decent PM we’ve had in decades. Shame on those who instigated this - I don’t know how they sleep at night.

Absolutely 💯

icanhandthemback

There’s a lot he’s done which I don’t agree with. I don’t think anybody should pay for primary or secondary education. Loading costs for employers was shortsighted and every one suffers including the low paid. Removing the benefit cap was a mistake although I do think there should be targeted help for families within the education system to see that they get fed, clothed, etc properly. The rent rules changing weren’t all bad but they are now talking about all rental properties having heat pumps. On that basis we will sell. We have updated all our properties with the recommended energy Efficient boilers already and just cannot afford the new technology.
I would never have voted for Starmer but do recognise he was a relatively calm hand on the tiller.

Good examples of the knock on effects - the point I was making in my previous comment about not all the things on the OPs list being automatically "good" without consideeing those knock on effects and strategically considering how to manage those effectively for wider good!

What is the Scrounger's Charter?

Luckygirl3

Moii Your point about benefits being exploited by a minority of people has been a problem for a very long time and is nothing to do with Labour.
It is very important to remember that it us a minority. When I was a social worker I saw far more people who were not getting the benefits they needed and were entitled to thannpepple who were exploiting the system. Exceptions are not a good basis for policy making.

Yes I agree "Exceptions are not a good basis for policy making".

Changing the benefits system is not about the examples of where it is being exploited per se being the reason.

Regarding benefits I think the mistake made was when the "cuts/changes" were announced it came over as a cost cutting/ budget saving strategy rather than a well thought out strategic plan to ensure benefits benefited those who need them whilst supporting many to no longer need them. I know that more recently many initiatives to support people back into work have been announced/introduced etc and that is brilliant. But those (even when mentioned in the cuts announcement and many were not) did not highlight joined up strategic thinking regarding the benefits system; how to maximise its impact; how to reduce need through strategies to promote employment etc etc.

Its a pity!

Most of those "achievements" are considered failures but most who live in the real world. What about lis

Just picked on pensioners, the disabled and anyone who has saved for their future.

As far as cutting the NHS waiting lists is concerned that's just shuffling numbers around or dropping people of the list either because they've died or got fed up waiting and gone private.

Corridor waiting in A&E is still as bad. They just find a few rooms to put them in instead.

A lot of the things in that list are not always working as well and as for the 2 child benefit cap being removed we should have capped it at a higher number rather than scrap it completely it just encourages people to have even more children when they can't afford the ones they have.

.,listing his failures like the grooming gangs, Mandelson and the sackings of more trus

Oreo

And some of those things were just plain wrong for the country.
The two child cap should have stayed.
All the benefits you mention should have been directed towards the very poorest.
Kept the old sick pay benefits, not extended them to anyone who fancies throwing a sickie for the day.
The triple lock will have to go sooner or later, it’s just a political vote catcher, and state pensions can’t continue at that rate as the population gets older and older.
Putting up minimum wages whilst clobbering employers with more NI was a sure way to create youth unemployment.
I can’t be bothered to go through all your points it’s too hot but on defence KS has done nothing bar talking.
If he was such a brilliant PM that had done wonders, then he wouldn’t be resigning now.

Exactly.

Sorry for the interrupted posts earlier -the problem of trying to use a tablet when it's so hot.

Anyway what I was trying to say is...

Most of those "achievements" are considered failures by most who live in the real world. What about listing his failures like the grooming gangs, Mandelson, Savile, Chagos Islands and the sackings of the much more honorable career civil servants in the Home Office. As others have said "If everything was so good about him, why he has dumped?"

Chagos decision was pathetic as is starving defence. Not sure AB will be any better if he seriously considers Ed Milliband in any sort of economic role. His green policies are crippling the economy and growth. Personally feel that a General Election would be wise at this stage. We need long term cross party strategic working in the UK if we are ever to succeed on the important issues that affect us all.

Grantanow

Thry only removed the 2 child cap after massive pressure. They didn't plan to do it.

Yet more evidence of a weak PM by his agreeing to it.

GANNET

Chagos decision was pathetic as is starving defence. Not sure AB will be any better if he seriously considers Ed Milliband in any sort of economic role. His green policies are crippling the economy and growth. Personally feel that a General Election would be wise at this stage. We need long term cross party strategic working in the UK if we are ever to succeed on the important issues that affect us all.

So who do you want to win that election and what do you think their policies might be?