He has done it! The toolmakers son has resigned!

I am a shopkeepers daughter like Thatcher

Agreed, Perhaps we could all follow Primrosethedecoratorsdaughter and rename ourselves after the occupations of our dads - although casdontheheattreatmentmetallurgistsdaughter is quite a mouthful I admit.

Some more humour on here would be very welcome at times.

But jokes are fine. Those in power should without exception be challenged with humour - the court jester and all that.

But many reform voters or those who no longer support Starmer will also base their views on their life experiences, history, etc, they will just be different to yours cossy.

Primrose53

valdali

Shabti100

But he himself said his father is a tool maker! How is the title anything but the truth?

It's not untrue. Just disrespectful.

How would you like it if at an event that that was important to you, you were introduced as "the tool-maker's daughter / the plumbers daughter / the vet's daughter or whatever?

Chances are you'd prefer your given name.

How can it be disrespectful? Starmer was proud, he says, of his father’s job. That’s why he constantly spoke of it!

My late Dad was a painter and decorator and a gardener as a weekend job and I was really proud of him for working 6 days a week to provide for us.

Some very sensitive souls on here!

Because the people that say it intend it as a joke, an insult. Don’t insult my intelligence by saying that they don’t…

KS has done the right thing by resigning now, instead of a bitter battle which he would have lost anyway.
I expect he will leave politics after AB takes over and resume being a lawyer which will suit him better.
I just hope we get a better Chancellor as well.I do feel more hopeful now for Labour.

valdali

Shabti100

But he himself said his father is a tool maker! How is the title anything but the truth?

It's not untrue. Just disrespectful.

How would you like it if at an event that that was important to you, you were introduced as "the tool-maker's daughter / the plumbers daughter / the vet's daughter or whatever?

Chances are you'd prefer your given name.

How can it be disrespectful? Starmer was proud, he says, of his father’s job. That’s why he constantly spoke of it!

My late Dad was a painter and decorator and a gardener as a weekend job and I was really proud of him for working 6 days a week to provide for us.

Some very sensitive souls on here!

Doodledog, I also second your post @ 18.07.09.

NotSpaghetti

NotSpaghetti

Thank you Maybee and Doodledog

For the thoughtful pieces earlier.

You’re welcome …

Brilliant post @ 19.56.10, Doodledog. I wish more posts were of that calibre.

NotSpaghetti

Thank you Maybee and Doodledog

For the thoughtful pieces earlier.

Galaxy

I am.not being condescending I simply think that those who vote reform or call Starmer two tier keir are able to form their own views in the same way as those who support Starmer. Both groups will have different influences that's all. It isn't just about trans for me, although that issue means I don't trust many institutions and political parties, but thats almost not the point. I didnt actually leave the labour party over the gender debate ( although I probably should have) I left over another issue.
I didn't say you were an idiot, what I said was that those who support Starmer are the same as those who don't, in that they will be influenced by the media and the social media they consume.
I will say again I want the media to hold the government to account, I think it was actually the guardian who did a lot of the initial digging on the mandelsson/epstein links and I am grateful to them, I would have been grateful to The Mail if they had been responsible.
Starmer failed partly due to an authoritarian approach in some matters ( and let's face it many of us including me supported that authoritarian approach when it suited us) and because he didn't appear to have a guiding vision, people hating the Tories just wasn't enough.

I don’t mean this in a condescending or patronising way, but many of us form our politic views based on critical thinking, facts, life experience, research and history.

If I only used the media instead of the above I’d probably be leaning towards Reform, for some reason he seems to get more media coverage than most other UK party leaders put together. It’s almost subliminal!

Thank you Maybee and Doodledog

jomo

What a double dealing traiter Andy cap Burnham is. Not been a mp while lording it up north thinks him and his gang are the cats whiskers (sorry Larry ) and can walk in no.10 cos he wants to..not a backbone to be seen among all them Labour mp's
Never voted Labour or was keen on sir kier but what a bloody cheek.
.

I did, and will again, vote Labour. But I think you really have a point!

MayBee70

Mark Carney on Starmer; "It has been a privilege to work alongside Sir Keir Starmer as he has led international efforts to support Ukraine through the Coalition of the Willing, strengthen NATO, improve Arctic cooperation, and deepen the historic partnership between Canada and the United Kingdom.
Throughout, and in the face of exceptional challenges, Keir has acted with principle, determination, and collaboration. The world is safer and allies are more united because of his efforts.
Keir, thank you for your lifetime of public service. I am grateful for your friendship, and I wish you all the best as you concentrate on your "most important job.”
—Keir has a great working relationship with Carney, Macron, Schulz and Zelensky...relationships that he has built up over time. This at a time when international unity is paramount . Imo

I agree. He’s more respected in some countries than he is in his own.

I wish him well

What a double dealing traiter Andy cap Burnham is. Not been a mp while lording it up north thinks him and his gang are the cats whiskers (sorry Larry ) and can walk in no.10 cos he wants to..not a backbone to be seen among all them Labour mp's
Never voted Labour or was keen on sir kier but what a bloody cheek.
.

I am.not being condescending I simply think that those who vote reform or call Starmer two tier keir are able to form their own views in the same way as those who support Starmer. Both groups will have different influences that's all. It isn't just about trans for me, although that issue means I don't trust many institutions and political parties, but thats almost not the point. I didnt actually leave the labour party over the gender debate ( although I probably should have) I left over another issue.
I didn't say you were an idiot, what I said was that those who support Starmer are the same as those who don't, in that they will be influenced by the media and the social media they consume.
I will say again I want the media to hold the government to account, I think it was actually the guardian who did a lot of the initial digging on the mandelsson/epstein links and I am grateful to them, I would have been grateful to The Mail if they had been responsible.
Starmer failed partly due to an authoritarian approach in some matters ( and let's face it many of us including me supported that authoritarian approach when it suited us) and because he didn't appear to have a guiding vision, people hating the Tories just wasn't enough.

It isn't really about sources is it, it is about differing views.
That's fair enough, but not what you said upthread:

People holding critical views of Starmer are no more led by the media than those who support him. I am sorry but it is that perspective that will finish Burnham as well.

A different view is one thing, but the rather condescending faux sorrow for what you see as the inevitability that the perspective of those who don't pour scorn on Starmer will lead to the demise of Burnham is not about that, is it?

You do seem to look down on those who don't sit on the fence politically these days. I realise that the people you call 'progressives' got the trans 'debate' spectacularly wrong, but there are other things to get exercised about now that that battle is won.

I absolutely agree that many on 'the left' were idiots about it - men will never be women, whatever they say - and I understand a reluctance to take some of them seriously as a result, but until a new generation comes along that's pretty much all we can do. The alternative is to hand over the country to Reform, or others who may share our biological realist perspective on 'gender', but are otherwise poles apart from my other views.

That does not mean that I am an idiot, though, or that anyone who hasn't written off any idea of a more equal and egalitarian society is politically naive. I don't assume that those who don't think like me are stupid, and am on record for saying that IMO at least some of the support for populist parties is driven by those who do make that assumption.

My post upthread was not saying anything like that, but pointing out that the media have been responsible for a lot of the sneering - that's how soundbites work, and I gave examples of them in action to back up my point of view. Agree or disagree - that's the point of a discussion, but vague condescension is not debate.

MartavTaurus

I'm just pleased that KS's children haven't been dragged into this discussion, or had any exposure.
I remember the horrible posts on here about Boris' little Wilf when he stepped down as PM. How the poor child would never experience love or care from his father etc. So yes some people were very rude and catty then too because they disliked the person.

Well said.

I'm just pleased that KS's children haven't been dragged into this discussion, or had any exposure.
I remember the horrible posts on here about Boris' little Wilf when he stepped down as PM. How the poor child would never experience love or care from his father etc. So yes some people were very rude and catty then too because they disliked the person.

I always liked Kier Stammer .. He didn't waffle on endlessly.. I believed him when he stated something, I admired him when standing up to that awful American President ... He was a polite, kind man ...Thank you Kier ...

The difference is Galaxy, that you expressed a view, which is everybody’s prerogative. There’s a big difference between expressing a view and saying things which are actually untrue, which some people have done on this thread.

Shabti100

But he himself said his father is a tool maker! How is the title anything but the truth?

It's not untrue. Just disrespectful.

How would you like it if at an event that that was important to you, you were introduced as "the tool-maker's daughter / the plumbers daughter / the vet's daughter or whatever?

Chances are you'd prefer your given name.

I think Starmer is cloth eared and stubborn while at the same time having no political vision beyond getting close to the EU.
I also think he’s a weak leader.
He may well be a pleasant person, none of us know whether he is or not but am prepared to think he is but that cuts no ice as a PM.
I’m glad he’s going as not least for the reason that Labour now have a much better chance of winning the next GE.