He has done it! The toolmakers son has resigned!

My post just disappeared. Try again.
Why are you frightened by those ? How are they different from TWAW, diversity is our strength, Manosphere, be kind, and on and on.
I could produce a similar list on slogans about Johnson.

LizzieDrip

^He’s more respected in some countries than he is in his own^

Cossy I was reflecting on this earlier. I wonder what folk in other countries think about what we’ve done here?

I think some Americans particularly, might think we’re bonkers!

Obviously, if nanna’s posts are anything to go by, they don’t care much for KS in Australia🤷‍♀️

I was just reading a post on instagram in which someone from America couldn’t understand why, with the PM standing down, his deputy didn’t just step into his shoes. Trying to explain what was happening just sounded totally undemocratic.

Why do some people seem to think Starmer will retire from politics and go back to the law? He's still an MP with a constituency to be represented. Do people think he will abandon his constituency and resign as an MP? That would be a pretty poor show in my opinion.

I was just reading a post on Instagram in which someone from America couldn’t understand why, with the PM standing down, his deputy didn’t just step into his shoes.

The Institute For Government has a good explainer about the position of Deputy Prime Minister.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/deputy-prime-minister-first-secretary-state

Unlike the US vice president, there is no constitutional deputy who automatically deputises for the prime minister or who would take over in the event the prime minister was incapacitated.

However, British prime ministers have sometimes chosen to ask another minister to act as their informal deputy. This de facto deputy has sometimes been given the honorific title ‘Deputy Prime Minister’ but at other times has been the First Secretary of State or the chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.

David Lammy was appointed deputy prime minister on 5 September 2025 following his predecessor Angela Rayner’s resignation. Lammy is also the Lord Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Justice.

[There is no current First Secretary of State. The post was last held by Dominic Raab who stepped up when Boris Johnson was admitted to hospital with Covid.]

[The current Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is Darren Jones who I understand may stand against Burnham in a leadership contest.]

Deputy prime ministers have tended to play a more substantial role in Labour governments because the deputy Labour party leader is elected by party members and so has their own power base. However, the role of deputy prime minister and deputy Labour party leader are not necessarily always held by the same individual. The deputy prime minister is appointed by the Prime Minister whereas the Labour party deputy leader is elected by party members. Lucy Powell, the MP for Manchester Central, is the current Labour party deputy leader after being elected in October 2025.

Then there is the Deputy Prime Minister in a Coalition Government as Nick Clegg was to David Cameron. Nick Clegg described how the practicalities and dynamic of the 2010-15 coalition government shaped his role as deputy prime minister:

“I know the title was the same, but my role [as deputy prime minister] bore absolutely no relationship to John Prescott or Michael Heseltine… The Coalition Government couldn’t do anything unless both sides agreed. So we had to set up from scratch something which Whitehall has never done before, and certainly has not done since, which is create a sort of two-headed, bicephalous way of making decisions.”

[Imagine a Reform/Tory, Farage/Badenoch bicephalous arrangement … No, I don’t want to either. Both could start a fight in an empty room.]

Lots more in the IoG explainer but the key takeaway is that there is no constitutional deputy.

I'm far from convinced that Burnham will actually become the leader or the PM. There's plenty of time for feelings to change. And as we've seen with Starmer who was well and truly hounded that can really happen. One thing's for sure though, whoever our next PM is, that person will have to step up to the plate and stay in power otherwise we'll be the laughing stock of Europe - any more instability and the EU won't want us back (which is what I've heard Burnham will pursue).

No matter what the rules are within the Labour Party if you look at it from an outsiders point of view; Non MP becomes an MP and straight away, with no vote from MP’s, party members or the electorate becomes Prime Minister of the country.

MayBee70

No matter what the rules are within the Labour Party if you look at it from an outsiders point of view; Non MP becomes an MP and straight away, with no vote from MP’s, party members or the electorate becomes Prime Minister of the country.

Yep - stinks doesn't it !

Banana republic syndrome. Even got the weather to match.

Galaxy

My post just disappeared. Try again.
Why are you frightened by those ? How are they different from TWAW, diversity is our strength, Manosphere, be kind, and on and on.
I could produce a similar list on slogans about Johnson.

I’m frightened by the willingness of large numbers of people to repeat the slogans (and others) uncritically.

Go ahead with the Johnson list, but whataboutery doesn’t weaken my point - it’s not about supporting Starmer or not supporting Johnson, it’s the ease with which people fall for the propaganda that scares me.

It’s not quite accurate though, is it MayBee70. It should say, ‘Serving Labour Mayor, who is an ex MP and Minister’, not just ‘Non MP’, which implies no connection with the party. Omitting to mention that mayors are also elected political appointments is misleading.

Oreo

Some more humour on here would be very welcome at times.

You mustn't say that! Or you'll be in the same soup as the poor OP.

At least Starmer's wife wasn't on Blind Date!

Well i agree but just about different propaganda, oh the manosphere, oh adolescence, black lives matter, TWAW, adults back in the room, and on and on. It isn't about supporting anyone in particular, it is about different propaganda/ slogans.
Of course I have my own slogans so I think a lot of it is class based.

I had to research Manosphere, definition from Wikipedia

"The manosphere is a varied collection of websites, blogs, and online forums promoting masculinity, misogyny, and opposition to feminism. Communities within the manosphere include men's rights activists, incels, Men Going Their Own Way, pick-up artists, and fathers' rights groups. While the specifics of each group's beliefs sometimes conflict, they are generally united in the belief that society is biased against men due to the influence of feminism, and that feminists promote misandry."

Pretty much what I experience on GN

Galaxy

Well i agree but just about different propaganda, oh the manosphere, oh adolescence, black lives matter, TWAW, adults back in the room, and on and on. It isn't about supporting anyone in particular, it is about different propaganda/ slogans.
Of course I have my own slogans so I think a lot of it is class based.

I’m not sure of your point.

Late to the party- but I absolutely deplore the snobby/inverted snobbery of this thread title!
Yes, we laughed heartily at his clichéd attempt to identify with the working classes as a N London barrister and I also had little time for what Starmer turned out to be as PM, despite our hopes before the last election. I am sorry he has caved in so quickly rather than stand up and fight for his position - maybe he never wanted it anyway?
I wish he had shown more backbone, taken less sh*t from his front bench, been more proactive in eg the Mandelson affair, trusted Morgan McSweenry less etc etc, but there is a sneering tone to “the toolmaker’s son” (unless I am much mistaken) and Starmer deserves better.

I don't know if it is sneering, obviously I can't read ops mind. I think it is mocking Starmers over use of the phrase in order to declare his working class roots. Starmer was very hurt once when people started laughing at that phrase ( was it in parliament or elsewhere, I can't renember) he felt they were insulting his dad and his origins, they weren't they were laughing at his repeated use of the phrase.

Galaxy

I don't know if it is sneering, obviously I can't read ops mind. I think it is mocking Starmers over use of the phrase in order to declare his working class roots. Starmer was very hurt once when people started laughing at that phrase ( was it in parliament or elsewhere, I can't renember) he felt they were insulting his dad and his origins, they weren't they were laughing at his repeated use of the phrase.

Yes. I think it was on tv if I remember, some debate maybe?

Starmer delivered the toolmaker line AGAIN and a load of groans came from the audience, like here we go again!

I felt sad for him then, there is on the whole an overwhelming instinct to defend our parents, he was genuinely hurt I think, but to me it was a disconnect with the audience.

David49 I cannot believe you think that!

You are often (maybe deliberately) provocative.
Are you a man anyway?
How do we know?
Why would we care?

I believe at least most of us comment only on what you say.

I'd never defend my father's occupation. I'm the daughter of a stockbroker/investor. If there's a heaven for him, then there will definitely be one for me!

Momac55

No sympathy here. The biggest tool his toolmaker father made imo

An erudite and thoughtful response. Thank You for sharing.

Hmm banana republic!!! Well well well 🍌 just about to have my breakfast in the sun and learn the rules of choosing a new leader! No! I do not belong to a political party but I was a young communist at the age of 14 😂😂😂

Rosie do you think it's a pretty poor show for Andy Burnham to use the recent election solely as a stepping stone , that he put himself forward as the new member of parliament with no
intention of doing the job?

westendgirl

Rosie do you think it's a pretty poor show for Andy Burnham to use the recent election solely as a stepping stone , that he put himself forward as the new member of parliament with no
intention of doing the job?

I have posted elsewhere that this whole scenario leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. A sitting MP resigning so that Burnham could be parachuted in to win the seat in an unnecessary by-election and likely become Leader of the party and thus PM is not what I expect of the Labour party. Manchester will now have the unnecessary expense of a mayoral election. I won't be voting Labour again if this is an example of future practice.
Incidentally he will still be the MP for his constituency as are all PMs no matter which party they represent.

NotSpaghetti

David49 I cannot believe you think that!

You are often (maybe deliberately) provocative.
Are you a man anyway?
How do we know?
Why would we care?

I believe at least most of us comment only on what you say.

I am accused of being a woman hater several times every week if I dare to criticize a woman, that's fine if others dont mind being called misandrists.

I particularly don't like the idea that more women in politics and business would improve society, it hasnt happened yet, how long are we expected to wait.