He has done it! The toolmakers son has resigned!

MaizieD

Cossy

Samwam

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/keir-starmer-going-he-has-done-lasting-harm-left-and-whole-country?fbclid=IwdGRjcASnJBtjbGNrBKciEWV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHvioWUba7Rjx10BnGqQ8b0PbNVogmSlcX4Ctsz-KhZR8h-qn0GKUlMLSpQRv_aem_ELPbLJJAtlTPvEVvlL8VUQ

KEIR STARMER’S resignation as Prime Minister attracts all the usual plaudits to his decency, integrity and commitment to serve. He merits none of them.

Piece from The Morning Star newspaper. I agree with this summation of Starmer.

You might well agree, many won’t.

I did read the Morning Star piece which Samwam linked to. I think it is like the 'curates egg' joke, originally in Punch but which has passed into shorthand for something which is 'good in parts' (a total misunderstanding of the joke, but that's by the by)

I get the impression that the Morning Star (MS) was supportive of Brexit but I'm afraid that blaming Starmer's Remain credentials is nonsense; every serious economic analysis if the economic effects of Brexit has come down firmly on the side of the huge economic damage it has caused for the UK.

While Starmer is excoriated for ousting Corbyn, firstly by his support for Remain which somehow forced Corbyn to lose the 2019 GE and then for his purging of the Labour Party of all left wing elements after having won a mendacious leadership campaign, I would place equal blame on Corbyn for having the vanity to agree to a GE in 2019 when Johnson's government was on the ropes and a serious opposition party could have prevented the Brexit mess we ended up with.

But Corbyn, bouyed up by his near defeat of May in 2017 and rapturous receptions at Glastonbury and the like, thought he'd got the country behind him and didn't have sufficient political nous to see that he didn't and that he would be far better to continue to stymie Johnson in opposition.

But the real killer for Starmer , which the MS doesn't mention at all, was his acceptance of the neoliberal economic orthodoxy which has been dominant since Thatcher and has led the UK into the decline we are experiencing now.

I'm afraid that Burnham will be just the same, unless he ditches his current economic advisors, who appear to be neoliberal to the core, and ditch the ridiculous 'fiscal rules which he appears to have promised to stick with. Changing Chancellors won't help if he doesn't ditch them as there isn't an even vaguely radical heterodox economic thinker among those being tipped for the job. He might just as well keep Reeves in place.

Posters keep saying about the economic damage of leaving the EU and I am no expert but apparently the EU is not doing so well due to too much red tape whilst the U.k is free to trade wherever. There is a good article in the Mail today describing how beneficial this is and how well our financial sector is doing.

GrannyGravy13

Margaret Thatcher was called the grocers daughter from Grantham 🤷‍♀️

And how many times did London Mayor Sadiq Khan tell us he was the son of a bus driver. Countless times.

Posters keep saying about the economic damage of leaving the EU

Posters are saying it because economists are saying it.

The Mail is just regurgitating the same nonsense about freedom to trade anywhere that they've been spouting ever since the referendum.

So far, the trade agreements which tory governments have managed have often turned out to be more advantageous to the the other country than they have been to the UK and have offered very little gains for the UK economy.

For example, farmers were furious about the deal on Beef made with Australia which allowed a large quota of Australian beef in direct competition with UK farmers.

I asked AI the question "How good have trade deals made since Brexit been for the UK

The short answer:

Start

The short answer is: the UK's post-Brexit trade agreements have been a mixed success politically, but a modest success economically. They have not come close to offsetting the economic costs of leaving the EU, but neither have they been worthless.

A useful way to separate the debate is:

Did the UK successfully negotiate new deals? → Yes.
Have those deals produced large economic gains? → Generally no.
Have they compensated for reduced trade with the EU? → Most studies say no.

End

Of course, LauraNorder. I know that Mr Johnson made no reference to his father except in very glowing terms.
However, I dislike the slight sneer which refers to humble origins.
This is not partisan. I disliked Mrs Thatcher referred to as the grocer's daughter ( and yes, she did talk about this herself)

He said Remain should also be on the table knowing the red wall wouldn't like that, to stop Corbyn, so it proved. Get Brexit Done Borris won.

I agree that neoliberalism economy dosent work.

MaizieD

^Posters keep saying about the economic damage of leaving the EU^

Posters are saying it because economists are saying it.

The Mail is just regurgitating the same nonsense about freedom to trade anywhere that they've been spouting ever since the referendum.

So far, the trade agreements which tory governments have managed have often turned out to be more advantageous to the the other country than they have been to the UK and have offered very little gains for the UK economy.

For example, farmers were furious about the deal on Beef made with Australia which allowed a large quota of Australian beef in direct competition with UK farmers.

I asked AI the question "How good have trade deals made since Brexit been for the UK

The short answer:

Start

The short answer is: the UK's post-Brexit trade agreements have been a mixed success politically, but a modest success economically. They have not come close to offsetting the economic costs of leaving the EU, but neither have they been worthless.

A useful way to separate the debate is:

Did the UK successfully negotiate new deals? → Yes.
Have those deals produced large economic gains? → Generally no.
Have they compensated for reduced trade with the EU? → Most studies say no.

End

Its a complicated subject, I suspect we can all find statistics to support how we voted. It would be interesting to to know how the UK would be faring economically had we stayed in the EU.

Are the remaining EUCountries doing better than us?

No they are following the Neo Liberal Economic policy as well their polititians are under the same pressure from voters to spend more on social improvement. It's happening in every democracy including the US who borrow more than the UK.

To win votes polititians spend more than the economy can produce and have little or none to improve infrastructure or growth. The only states that have good economies are those with small populations and large resources, Norway, Denmark Sweden, Ireland is also doing well for different reasons.

Burnham has promised no change on economic policy, so if he wants to spend more he has to increase taxes.

MaizieD

What a horrible thread title. Starmer's detractors vindictive to the last.

My thoughts exactly!

Starmer had no compunction in treachery to his leader.
Not a member until 2026 ish he never could find his moral compass and had no remorse for Gaza. AB quite similar.
Have seen them up close.
JC and some others in his cabinet are truly principled. Thrown to the lions by the mediocre middles who’ve let us all down.
Look out for YP coming to a place near you!

Starmer has been treated abominably. He's a good man who in spite of mistakes, has done well for the country.
Shame on the labour party. This undemocratic, disloyal move by Burnham will cause chaos.

I heard an interview with KS a while ago. He talked about his childhood and how he was brought up not to draw attention to himself or show off. His father in particular was ashamed of his job and how poor they were and wouldn't allow visitors to the house. I wonder if these experiences have made it difficult for him to be in the limelight and to talk about his and the Labour Party's achievements.

Yes I agree. Why is he to be defined by his father’s job? What’s being implied? A toolmaker’s son isn’t good enough? Well said

I have not read all of the comments but just wanted to say how sorry I felt for him. The knives have been out for a long time and he has done well imo in just the two years he has been PM. He has been calm and dependable and stood up to Trump. So he made a couple of mistakes and he was slaughtered for it. Mandelson being one and letting Miss Reeves do the damage she has done. Lets see if Mr. Burnham can do any better. I hope he does for the sake of us all but as he does not currently have a mandate it will be interesting. I would like to wish KS well and to be honest I think I will miss him a little.

Its a complicated subject, I suspect we can all find statistics to support how we voted. It would be interesting to to know how the UK would be faring economically had we stayed in the EU.

AI has no axe to grind, Meanrogrog. It looks at all the evidence it can find and comes to a reasoned conclusion.

He's going to be missed, the LP has fallen for the popularist propaganda. I think Starmer was going in the right direction and has achieved a lot in his time, not least winning an election. I'm sorry he's not been left to at the least complete his term. Perfect, no. All the things I'd like to have seen, no. But going in the right direction and, I believe a sound politician in a very messed up situation treading a decent a path as possible. Will Burnham be better? Well, probably a better speaker but in the way both Johnson and Farrage are. Not disparaging him but I'm not sure Burnham is any tougher or more capable than Starmer is. In the current climate politics is set with a million traps to fall into and is set up by the press and oppositions as drama. The uncertainty of the information that drives the policy decisions politicians make mean an outward appearance of gung-ho confidence is deeply misleading. I'm disappointed with the labour party. I'll still vote for them as things currently stand, I don't think Burnham is a disaster, I just think a bit more continuity and stability would have served the country better than yet another head rolling. Who the hell would want to put themselves forward for a leadership role under these circumstances!

Look out for YP coming to a place near you!

What is YP, Frogoet?

Not a fan of Starmer or the LP but I don't believe in kicking a man when he's down. Bad enough for anyone to be forced out of their job by colleagues let alone having to go through this in such a public forum. Feel very sorry for him and his family and for those who are rejoicing I would like to remind them he did keep us out of a war!

I'm from the U.S. I can't believe this wasn't in our news this morning. I don't know a lot about how Mr. Starmer ran your country. I did admire how diplomatic he was in dealing with Trump. (a difficult task indeed!)

Felt a bit sorry for him. At least he wasn’t an idiotic like Boris

Two years is not long enough to undo all the damage done by multiple Conservative PMs.
Good luck Burnham.

I have been absolutely disgusted by the way the MPs in the Labour Party have turned on the man who won them the last election. The media, obviously very right wing, has hounded Starmer from Day One. Their aim seems to be to get Reform in situ, but they were thwarted in Makerfield and will be similarly thwarted in a General Election. The photograph of Burnham with gloating, toadying MPs was insensitive, cruel and derided. Shame on the Labour MPs and shame on Burnham, whom I previously supported.

Maremia

I will not forget that he kept us out of that illegal war.

Yes, you're right! Funny how people seem to have forgotten that already.

Absolutely. This country has forgotten about good manners and respect, since Farage, Johnson et al normalised rudeness. Tony Blair did advocate - ‘education, education, education’. It’s certainly by passed many IMHO

I think the electorate are too fickle, driven by dramatic headlines and the media ready to pounce. They think change happens quickly. Whichever party is in power the mood is too febrile and I have a feeling that Andy will be getting the same calls to resign in a year or two. I hope not.

Based on 2025/2026 Bloomberg Economics research, Brexit has caused a significant, persistent, and worsening drag on the UK economy, costing an estimated £100 billion to over £200 billion annually.

How many hospitals and schools would those losses fund, I wonder ?