German voters slide inexorably to common sense …

Thank you for that detailed response.
May I ask, which of Farage's stated policies, if such exists, will benefit families?

Just voting for something because it’s new or different doesn’t not guarantee change for the better, on the contrary, history suggests it often means change for the worse. Brexit being a good example.

Hello everyone sorry I’ve been AWOL for a while. Thank you for so many interesting posts. I’m glad a ‘report’ button hasn’t been activated. I feel it’s good to be able to discuss and debate or viewpoints, respectfully but robustly - otherwise what’s the point? We are not molluscs.

My views are that the UK needs to step up and look after our citizens better. The UniParty (both cheeks of the same you know what) is no longer the right vehicle for representing conservative values.

I’ve voted Labour in the past (cried when John Smith died), voted for Boris who promised to Get Brexit Done (after the useless and craven Theresa May with her side kick Ollie Robbins continually capitulated during negotiations with the EU) and ended up feeling disappointed and disenfranchised. The governments of the day (both) just seemed to disregard the voting public. Jo Swinson (Lib Dems) cooked her goose by having the temerity to say she’d just overturn the referendum result. Ye gods.

So, I’ve moved to Reform UK, viewing it as a party that prioritizes "family, community and country.

Now maybe I’m wrong and the majority on here are right. However I feel that by voting for the same thing, over and over again, nothing will change. I want change and the UniParty isn’t delivering - no matter what soundbites and platitudes they offer voters in the short term.

I don’t want this turgid status quo. I’m unhappy that the silent majority have not been listened to. I don’t want Net Zero. I don’t want porous borders that are open to abuse. We are tolerate in the UK, kind and generous but we are being taken advantage of. I don’t want our government to just keep throwing money at the NHS.

I want change. We need clever people with experience in business running our country. Experts in their field. Only by voting differently can I foresee any change being made. I hope for better days ahead for our youngsters. I believe it can happen but not if we keep voting for the same thing on repeat.

The element of the original post that is incorrect in my view is the use of the word inexorable. The dictionary definition is: ‘process, event, or force that is impossible to stop, prevent, or persuade. It means relentless, unstoppable, and unyielding—something that continues on its course regardless of any pleas or efforts to change it.’.
It is not an accurate word to use to describe any political movement as they all can, and do, change?

Similarly Farage and Lowe both want higher birth rates and would prefer women to be “housewives” and “stay at home mothers” churning out children and ensuring we have the workers we need from our own population.

CatsWhiskas

According to Google AI, Elon Musk has 14 children.

Crikey! I'd read in an earlier article he had 7 living children- evidently written before one of the briths in 2021.

Googled again specifically how many children has had to date:

with Justin Wilson- had 6, though one passed away at 10 weeks in 2002.

with Grimes- 3 children- born 2020, 2021 and 2022 respectively.

with Shivon Zilis- 4 - twins born in 2021, one born 2024 and the last born recently in 2026.

with Ashely St Clair- 1 born in 2024.

Wotapalaver

^According to Google AI, Elon Musk has 14 children.^

Good at something then!

If it's true Im sure he can afford the maintenence.

According to Google AI, Elon Musk has 14 children.

Good at something then!

According to Google AI, Elon Musk has 14 children.

I lived a couple of miles outside the centre of Munich for nearly 3- 4 years in the early days of my marriage (husband's job). Around this time the total proportion of foreign residents was just under 10% of Bavaria's population- mostly Turkish and Italians on "guest worker" agreements. There was a great Italian cafe that sold gorgeous gelato take out in many flavours, downstairs from our flat I fondly recall! Turkish and Italian restaurants flourished locally also.

In 2026, I've just googled, the figure has risen to around 18% of the total Bavarian population. The Turkish and Italian communities remain large but there have been recent surges heavily driven by successive crises- most notably conflict in Ukraine and increased global labour migration. This is typical of the rest of Germany, i.e. the non-German population registered in the Central register of Foreigners 2026 sits at roughly 14 million out of a total population of over 83.4 million.

Germany apparently has one of the world's lowest fertility rates in the world-around 1.3 (slightly less than UK at 1.41) and has recorded more deaths than births since 1972 not dissimilar to the trend in the UK. The population would decrease year on year if it wasn't for immigration.

The modern German economy heavily relies on foreign born labour as a result of this natural population decline and has done so for over 50 years.

It is no surprise that AfD and Trump's government that promote remigration but grapple with declining birth rate- remedy- encourage American born women to stay home and have large numbers of children. Musk leads the way with 7!

I don't think it's "common sense" to support any party that is basically a one issue party based on immigration. I wonder if FGT has actually read the AFD manifesto. these are just a few snippets:

Remigration (ie mass deportation) and an end a constitutional right to asylum, basically detaching Germany from the UN
Return to ancestry based citizenship. You'll need ethnically German parents to be classed as a German even if you are born there and spend your life there, you'll be a second class citizen and could be deported.
Lifting sanctions on Russia and ending weapons delivery to Ukraine. Huge benefits for Russia!
Return to using coal and abolish net zero aspirations. If poorer countries suffer, so what!
Aboishing the euro and returning to the Deutschmark.
Tax breaks to ethnically German families who have large families. This does sound like the Nazis!

Nothing common sense about any of the above IMO!

Most of the problems in Germany with immigrants are in the former East Germany, which, with the exception of Berlin, is still much poorer than the West. Most of the immigrants were dumped in areas of the East because people don't want to live there and there's a shortage of workers. Former East Germans have never been exposed to multi-culturalism as the West has and are socially quite backward. If you look at a map where the AfD is popular, there's a very clear dividing line which runs along the former East West border.

Merkel had a run of relative prosperity and migration was not as much of an issue as today, modern Germany has always coped well with migrants in the past, millions from Eastern Europe and Turkey drove the economy. Time are harder now and as in the UK migrants are an issue.

Germany is the main paymaster for the EU any changes will make a big difference, change there will change the EU so we should take notice. It's not just Germany; France, Italy, Hungary and probably the UK will go that way.

It's a problem in all western countries the Neo Liberal economic policy has not produced prosperity for most, only larger borrowings. Polititians are more interested in votes than growing the economy, I can't see any change likely the OBR is predicting the UK will be borrowing 350% of GDP within 50 yrs We should take notice because Japan is already borrowing 250% the cost to the economy has been massive.

MartavTaurus

David49

We should all take notice what is happening in other countries it's not just Germany, Hungary, France, Italy are all moving to the right in politics, how much we will follow time will tell.

Im hoping that national interests dont take centre stage because if Germany stops bankrolling the EU and become protectionist there could be big changes afoot. With an aggressive Russia on our doorstep and the US stepping back, we need unity.

I agree, David49.

I'm currently in France for a few months and keeping abreast of politics here. France is keeping a respectful distance as regards politics in Germany, (they have to try to be united, especially as the latest joint defence project has just gone pear-shaped).

In France, political analysts are saying that, should the AfD win in the upcoming election, then a similar move to the right may rapidly gain traction in the hexagon.

Time will certainly tell.

I think in France experience in general suggests that votes in the first round go far Right or far Left as a protest, then everyone calms down and votes for the centre in the second round.

The OP posted her opinion: "Good luck to the AfD and Reform. Common sense is finally emerging. The welfarism cannot (and should not) be sustained".

FGT2 has chosen not to contribute to the thread debate (so far at least) and that's fine. We don't know why FGT2 holds her opinion but thats fine also. That doesn't stop others posting their views and the reasons why they hold their views....

I would like to challenge, respectfully, the postulation that people voting in the way with which you agree, is " common sense".
Of course, a world view with which you concur might seem that way to you, but that doesn't validate the claim.
I am a Christian, and my worldview is that the world would be a better place if everyone followed the teaching of Christ
Would I claim this as " common sense" - no.
Do I think that any atheist, Jew, Sikh etc lack " common sense" because they don't see the world through the same lens as me- of course not.
Our views are dear to us, but that doesn't make them " common sense".

Interesting post LemonJam.

The criticism I've read says, that after Merkel's retirement, things unravelled and that there was no long term planning. I think many Germans feel the country hasn't moved forward, resulting now in a void and nothingness.
The current chancellor, Merz, looks more decisive.

Thanks LemonJam. An 'ace' post, as usual.

Thank you Lemonjam for, as always, a simple and concise explanation and post.

Merkel had 16 years as Germany's Head of Government from 2005 to 2021. There is no specific study measuring whether Germans feel Germany was better before 2005 when she took office than today. But longitudinal quality of life surveys offer a better picture and most studies show the vast majority of Germans feel life is better today though significant pockets of nostalgia and economic anxiety remain all on DW- Deutsche Welle website.

Merkel like all politicians the world over reaps praise and criticism. However that particular report in the headline staes that "most Germans say the country is worse off today than when she was in office", i.e. 61%. She was a popular leader for the majority of Germans and was the first head of government to leave office of her own accord, i.e. not voted out.

It then goes onto list reasons given e.g. "bad government" was to blame since she left office.

Posters may criticise her stance to open borders but the country is still faced with tackling a shortage of skilled workers in a world facing a mounting threat of nationalism.

We see how nationalism plays out in Russia with Putin and how it plays out with Trump in the US. We have ring side seats to Russia's invasion of Poland and Trump's various actual and proposed invasions. US ICE civil order and mass deportation drive does not seem to have reaped any benefits for the country domestically or on the global stage in my eyes. The eye watering costs to maintain ICE activity and military campaigns detract from other budgets and for what benefit? The UK can afford neither of those patterns of spending.

The UK is struggling to work towards a fit for purpose defence budget as we speak and we are out of the EU so no longer a member at the EU defence table. I do not think Reform or AfD talk common sense in this context.

LauraNorderr

Cossy I think we are at either side of the centre of the so called political spectrum but I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree with your post at 11.41.
So well put that I can not add to it.

Thank you.

Despite (a very few) accusations to the contrary, I do my very best to have balanced views.

We can all have different political persuasions and actually agree on many things or even have well thought, educated, civilised debate.

LemonJam

dw.com survey "How do Germans view Angela Merkel's legacy";

61% said the country's situation has deteriorated since Merkel left office.

I bet more than that!

Sunshinegirls

11:41Cossy

Errr I think you are over reacting to my post and twisting it to suit your own agenda.

That’s entirely your prerogative and actually I wasn’t twisting yours, or anyone else’s, post.

Not completely understanding that report LemonJam.
Are they saying that the situation has deteriorated because Merkle has gone?

LemonJam

dw.com survey "How do Germans view Angela Merkel's legacy";

61% said the country's situation has deteriorated since Merkel left office.

I would say it’s much higher than that. How many were surveyed anyway?

One of our German relatives works as an Interpreter and used to send us loads of reports when Merkle was opening the doors as wide as she could.