German voters slide inexorably to common sense …

I actually do agree about the 100,000. because if these people are ‘unrecorded’ no one knows the real figures, do they ?

nanna8

Is this a University forum or a court of law? I thought it was just a discussion group. Silly me.

What is the point of having a series of apparently ignorant counter assertions going round in circles with no facts or reputable opinion articles?

None whatsoever

Basically if someone says something statistical, like there are X people who have "disappeared" I want more than someone just saying it as if it were true with no evidence.

The O/P just "asserts" - doesn't even give the news paper ref from whence it came.

But nanna8 if we can’t back up our points with fact, we could simply talk gobbledegook at each other, and it would all be totally pointless.

Is this a University forum or a court of law? I thought it was just a discussion group. Silly me.

Evidence? Stats? Where do you get you information from? "something you heard".

Just making claims wont hack it on this thread where people, having read the whole thread, having been giving thought out references before making claims.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Our UK deportation rate is abysmal.
We know it and the politicians know we know it.

And over 100,000 failed asylum seekers have not been deported and have just disappeared’. The government have no idea where they are

LemonJam

It is no surprise that AfD and Trump's government that promote remigration but grapple with declining birth rate- remedy- encourage American born women to stay home and have large numbers of children.

And what then if those women decide they don't want to stay home and have large numbers of children?

This has been feverishly discussed among the Red-Pill Bro's who regularly hold forth about "women's natural role / biology / etc". Some are so distraught at the declining birth rate that they think Trump should "do something sort of legally" about marriage - because those feminazi women are just not getting into their 'natural' roles. One suggest 'wimmin' should have to abide by arranged marriages.

These misogynistic chappies are furious because women have their own money, jobs, property and they refuse to become a drudge, breeder and housemaid.

Of course, no government is going to force women to do anything like that - but what it can do, and will do, is gradually remove the options and opportunities that women now avail themselves of in education and the workplace. There's one professor already calling for further education to be withheld from women, who should - he said - focus on finding a man and having children.

Misogynistic men and the Right are bedfellows.

The definition of centre doesn’t shift though, neither does the definition of far left and far right. The prevailing political mood of the countries changes, not the definitions.

When the AfD has nearly one quarter of the seats in the Bundestag you can no longer claim that they aren't 'mainstream'.

The Overton window has shifted, and continuing to call them 'far right' is just left-wingers clinging on to a comfort blanket.

Politicians are only 'far anything' if they are distant from wherever the centre happens to be these days.

Well from personal experience, my values and attitudes have changed very little, but the party that represented them has shifted. This has created the gap that new political parties are now filling.

It’s not the people who are reactionary; it’s the mainstream politicians.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

….ps Nigel was in Clacton on Friday, as he often is (most MPs are in their constituencies on Fridays). Just to forestall the next smear.

Nigel Farage doesn’t hold in person constituency surgeries. Everything for the constituency is done virtually. He may have been in Clacton, what was he doing?

FGT, you think that if just over half of the people being detained by ICE are actually not supposed to be in the USA, the rest of them are collateral damage,that's "good odds" & shows it's working?

I'm just curious, if just over half the prisoners in the UK were guilty, the other 40% innocent, would that also be "good odds" because, hey, we're locking up a lot of criminals?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Our UK deportation rate is abysmal.
We know it and the politicians know we know it.

Do you actually know what the rate is?

Our UK deportation rate is abysmal.
We know it and the politicians know we know it.

….ps Nigel was in Clacton on Friday, as he often is (most MPs are in their constituencies on Fridays). Just to forestall the next smear.

. "I’m unhappy that the silent majority have not been listened to. "
I don't think the "silent majority" think as you do FGT More people in NI came out to protest peacefully about the vile riots than the thugs who came out to burn and intimidate immigrants. I think they represent the majority.

I don’t want Net Zero.
I and many people like me want a world where our children and our children's children and their children (and so on) can exist. We don't want huge areas of the world becoming uninhabitable because that will fuel further migration, poverty and starvation. Moving to net zero is an important ambition.

I don’t want porous borders that are open to abuse.
I don't know any people who want uncontrolled migration but most of us understand the forces that drive it. We can't build a wall around the UK but we can have effective policies that treat genuine asylum seekers in a humane way whilst deporting those who have no right of entry.

We are tolerate in the UK, kind and generous but we are being taken advantage of.
I think most of us are tolerant, kind and generous but it seems some are not. Thankfully, I think they are still in the minority. I don't feel taken advantage of because I recognise the benefits that we have firstly from the colonies we had, secondly from the migrants who came here to help our economy and lastly I see myself as a member of the human race as well as British, English, Female, white and old. I belong to many different groups of people but I don't see any of those groups giving me an advantage over anyone else in a different group.

I don’t want our government to just keep throwing money at the NHS.
I would like you to explain how you think the NHS could be run more effectively. Farage wants privatisation but if you look at the US, It is more expensive than the NHS, It has poorer outcomes, and ranks lower than the NHS in world rankings. In the US the main reason for bankruptcy is chronic poor health or a terminal disease, that doesn't seem like a good advertisement for a privatised system.

It's OK to want change but that change has to be for the better not the worse.

Maremia

Talking about ICE and arrests made. Allegedly, one of it's main organisers has stated that up to 40 per cent of people detained are innocent.
We do not want that sort of malignant action on our shores.

Which means almost 60% are not. Good odds. Over half. Shows how many chancers are out there taking liberties.

MT62

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Hello everyone sorry I’ve been AWOL for a while. Thank you for so many interesting posts. I’m glad a ‘report’ button hasn’t been activated. I feel it’s good to be able to discuss and debate or viewpoints, respectfully but robustly - otherwise what’s the point? We are not molluscs.

My views are that the UK needs to step up and look after our citizens better. The UniParty (both cheeks of the same you know what) is no longer the right vehicle for representing conservative values.

I’ve voted Labour in the past (cried when John Smith died), voted for Boris who promised to Get Brexit Done (after the useless and craven Theresa May with her side kick Ollie Robbins continually capitulated during negotiations with the EU) and ended up feeling disappointed and disenfranchised. The governments of the day (both) just seemed to disregard the voting public. Jo Swinson (Lib Dems) cooked her goose by having the temerity to say she’d just overturn the referendum result. Ye gods.

So, I’ve moved to Reform UK, viewing it as a party that prioritizes "family, community and country.

Now maybe I’m wrong and the majority on here are right. However I feel that by voting for the same thing, over and over again, nothing will change. I want change and the UniParty isn’t delivering - no matter what soundbites and platitudes they offer voters in the short term.

I don’t want this turgid status quo. I’m unhappy that the silent majority have not been listened to. I don’t want Net Zero. I don’t want porous borders that are open to abuse. We are tolerate in the UK, kind and generous but we are being taken advantage of. I don’t want our government to just keep throwing money at the NHS.

I want change. We need clever people with experience in business running our country. Experts in their field. Only by voting differently can I foresee any change being made. I hope for better days ahead for our youngsters. I believe it can happen but not if we keep voting for the same thing on repeat.

I 100% agree with you FGT

So do I and my voting history is similar too.

I voted Labour for most of my adult life, then voted Conservative a few times but now I would vote Reform.

It doesn’t bother me what people on here say against them or me. I have made my mind up. A lot of people are so fanatical about their party that they want everybody else to vote the same way and ridicule others for not voting “their way”.

We are all entitled to change our minds but not all of us can admit we may have been wrong in the past or a new party comes along and you see a glimmer of hope.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Hello everyone sorry I’ve been AWOL for a while. Thank you for so many interesting posts. I’m glad a ‘report’ button hasn’t been activated. I feel it’s good to be able to discuss and debate or viewpoints, respectfully but robustly - otherwise what’s the point? We are not molluscs.

My views are that the UK needs to step up and look after our citizens better. The UniParty (both cheeks of the same you know what) is no longer the right vehicle for representing conservative values.

I’ve voted Labour in the past (cried when John Smith died), voted for Boris who promised to Get Brexit Done (after the useless and craven Theresa May with her side kick Ollie Robbins continually capitulated during negotiations with the EU) and ended up feeling disappointed and disenfranchised. The governments of the day (both) just seemed to disregard the voting public. Jo Swinson (Lib Dems) cooked her goose by having the temerity to say she’d just overturn the referendum result. Ye gods.

So, I’ve moved to Reform UK, viewing it as a party that prioritizes "family, community and country.

Now maybe I’m wrong and the majority on here are right. However I feel that by voting for the same thing, over and over again, nothing will change. I want change and the UniParty isn’t delivering - no matter what soundbites and platitudes they offer voters in the short term.

I don’t want this turgid status quo. I’m unhappy that the silent majority have not been listened to. I don’t want Net Zero. I don’t want porous borders that are open to abuse. We are tolerate in the UK, kind and generous but we are being taken advantage of. I don’t want our government to just keep throwing money at the NHS.

I want change. We need clever people with experience in business running our country. Experts in their field. Only by voting differently can I foresee any change being made. I hope for better days ahead for our youngsters. I believe it can happen but not if we keep voting for the same thing on repeat.

I 100% agree with you FGT

Sorry about typos! On a phone and hands not great today, hope my recent post makes sense.

Talking about ICE and arrests made. Allegedly, one of it's main organisers has stated that up to 40 per cent of people detained are innocent.
We do not want that sort of malignant action on our shores.

LemonJam

Common sense tells me that a UK ICE and DOGE and Musk equivalent will lead to greater and more prolific civil disorder, decimation of the NHS and public services and tax cuts for all the wealthy- making the gap between rich and poor even wider.

Common sense tells me that will not be good for the UK domestically or on the world stage.

I guess we all have different experiences and different expectations of our public servants and services.

Reform’s history within local authorities with the last 12 months, just prior to the recent local elections shows almost 50% of the councillors stepped down/expelled/sacked for a myriad of reasons.

The only ways Farage will ever be able to form a government is:-

1) Join up with another party
2) Magic up 300+ candidates to become new MPs
3) Persuade existing MPs from other parties to defect to them.

I cannot put my faith in a party which has a Leader with a history of starting many things but not quite seeing them through, who spent a decade or so as an MEP but didn’t fight the UK’s but rather sought to undermine the EU, whilst being happy to accept his salary and rarely bothering to attend votes. A leader who makes no secret of his admiration for Trump and Musk and is highly motivated by money, lots and lots of it. There’s so much than I despise about Farage.

I’m not happen with the division in the current government. I feel many have been very unfair to Starmer and two years is no time at in government. The wheels of our legislation turn extremely slowly.

If I have one huge gripe about our current government it would be their lack of good positive communication around and their inability on too many occasions to “read the room”

Only when the time comes for our next GE will we know which way the wind blows.

In the meantime Farage would do well to drop his other business interests, and start to serve his constituency.

Common sense tells me that a UK ICE and DOGE and Musk equivalent will lead to greater and more prolific civil disorder, decimation of the NHS and public services and tax cuts for all the wealthy- making the gap between rich and poor even wider.

Common sense tells me that will not be good for the UK domestically or on the world stage.

You are entitled to your views FGT2 and it's good that we can all agree to disagree.

I do not share your view Reform UK stands for family, community and country. It's dominated by Farage and a handful of mostly Conservative MP defectors. The Party lacks experience, skills and numbers to run a government. Kenyon in Makerfield is sexist and completely out of his depth judging by his Question Time appearance.

Farage has little regard for anything other than feathering his own nest and loves the limelight. He takes lessons from Trump and will promote personal wealth and crypto currency benefactors above community and country in a similar way to Trump no doubt. I view both of then as corrupt.

If Andy Burnham wins on Thursday, as predicted we will see change- watch this space if its change you're after as there are three more years of this government before the next GE.

Common sense is not something I attribute to ReformUk or AfD- far from it. It what way you attribute common sense to Reform UK values and rhetoric is hard to understand.

Which 'communities' will Reform benefit?