German voters slide inexorably to common sense …

For understanding what led up to Hitler, I can really recommend ‘A Berlin Diary’ by Lionel Shriver, an American journalist, who was in Berlin the few years prior to WW2, and IIRC until the Americans entered the war.

Eminently readable, not heavy going. I think it was first published during WW2.

I think the use of 'apparently' makes the question acceptable.

Perhaps it is the fact that some comments from posters are coming across as unnecessarily nasty.

i.e. Willow£ - What is the point of having a series of apparently ignorant counter assertions going round in circles with no facts or reputable opinion articles?

nanna8

Is this a University forum or a court of law? I thought it was just a discussion group. Silly me.

I'm trying to understand your position. If participants aren't allowed to question, test, or challenge claims they disagree with, what role do you see discussion serving beyond expressing agreement?

Oreo

Wyllow3

Evidence? Stats? Where do you get you information from? "something you heard".

Just making claims wont hack it on this thread where people, having read the whole thread, having been giving thought out references before making claims.

Look at the AI overview of this question of vanishing failed asylum applicants and the GOV.UK site.
Tens of thousands do go missing as they go to mainly the North West or London and mingle with their own countrymen in the black economy.Some will be found periodically on raids by immigration officers on businesses but most will be here forever.

Thank you Oreo, I did get the stats from AI.

I didn't realise that, although the information it out there for anyone to access, that I had to include a link in my post. I shall have to look at the rule book again

Well at least my thread has been good for ‘something’!

Maremia

Thanks DAR for explaining the Overton window.
There are so many excellent 'explaining' posts on this Thread.
Wish I could preserve them for reference.

I’d like to second that👏👏👏

Thanks DAR … well informed, measured & thoughtful, as always

MaizieD

I can assure posters that DAR and I did not collude on our strikingly similar responses

It made me smile - in a very good way.

And David, thanks for that link.
Reassuring.

Thanks DAR for explaining the Overton window.
There are so many excellent 'explaining' posts on this Thread.
Wish I could preserve them for reference.

Didn't know that about Brighton, WhiteWave. I am well impressed. Good tactics 👏

I can assure posters that DAR and I did not collude on our strikingly similar responses

In the Federal elections last year the ADF got 20% of the votes, which under the system of proportional representation in Germany, gave them 152 seats out 630. Of course that is a significant number but as no other party with join with them in a coalition, they would need to take 316 seats to form a government. As Germany has not had a non coalition government since 1957, the AFD has a very long way to go to achieve real power in Germany. It also means that in 2025, 80% of the German voters, did not vote for the AFD!

MT62

What happens if there was ever a coalition party with the Tories & reform would they be deemed ‘far right’?
Not that I think it will happen of course.

Whether or not this coalition would be deemed ‘far right’ would depend on its stated policies.

MT62

What happens if there was ever a coalition party with the Tories & reform would they be deemed ‘far right’?
Not that I think it will happen of course.

Whether they're labelled 'far right' would depend on their policies, not simply on forming a coalition.

What happens if there was ever a coalition party with the Tories & reform would they be deemed ‘far right’?
Not that I think it will happen of course.

There seems to be a recurring pattern here. Talking about the Overton Window it was suggested that electoral success was proof that a party can no longer be considered far-right. In the OP support for AfD and Reform is treated as proof that "common sense" is prevailing.

But popularity doesn't establish truth. A political position can become more popular without becoming more correct, just as an unpopular position can sometimes turn out to be right.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

When the AfD has nearly one quarter of the seats in the Bundestag you can no longer claim that they aren't 'mainstream'.

The Overton window has shifted, and continuing to call them 'far right' is just left-wingers clinging on to a comfort blanket.

Politicians are only 'far anything' if they are distant from wherever the centre happens to be these days.

The Overton window describes which ideas are considered politically acceptable or discussable at a given time. It does not redefine the ideological position of a party.

A party can become more popular without changing where it sits on the political spectrum. If a party that was previously regarded as far-right gains support, that may indicate the Overton window has shifted towards some of its positions. It does not automatically mean the party is no longer far-right.

Otherwise, the terms "far-left" and "far-right" would become meaningless, because they would change every time election results changed. Political scientists generally classify parties according to their policies, ideology, rhetoric, and historical context, not simply by their vote share.

The AfD having a large parliamentary presence tells us that it is electorally significant and increasingly mainstream in the sense of being a major political force. It does not, by itself, settle the separate question of whether its ideology should be classified as far-right.

Wyllow3

Evidence? Stats? Where do you get you information from? "something you heard".

Just making claims wont hack it on this thread where people, having read the whole thread, having been giving thought out references before making claims.

Sources are regularly provided and then poo-pooed by certain members who do not like the source. They only like sources they provide. 😉

Wyllow3

Evidence? Stats? Where do you get you information from? "something you heard".

Just making claims wont hack it on this thread where people, having read the whole thread, having been giving thought out references before making claims.

Look at the AI overview of this question of vanishing failed asylum applicants and the GOV.UK site.
Tens of thousands do go missing as they go to mainly the North West or London and mingle with their own countrymen in the black economy.Some will be found periodically on raids by immigration officers on businesses but most will be here forever.

www.gov.uk/government/news/asylum-hotels-close-as-government-scales-up-use-of-large-sites

Here is a link that explains what is actually happening illegal migrants are being concentrated in large camps with basic accommodation where those that qualify for asylum can be processed efficiently and the rest deported.

I completely agree with this change in policy

Inevitably some will disappear, it is estimated at less than 20,000 of those claiming asylum, those will be finding work in the black economy and not costing us anything, in due course they will be found and deported. The total illegal migrants in the UK is many more, 42,000 were deported last year

Ah, Brighton😁 always such a colourful place.

Yes, those being goaded into these demonstrations by the likes of Putin proxies were outnumbered by thousands.

Here in Brighton the stand up to racism lot always put on a cheerful March of singing, drums etc. - and what happens is that the ordinary residents simply step out of their houses and wonder around blocking the access to any roads by the hard of thinking racists.

Brighton has if off to a fine art and it is generally a cheerful occasion, showing real community spirit.

'Common sense' was demonstrated very clearly in Belfast, Glasgow and elsewhere with the 'Stand up to Racism' demonstrations.

The conditions in which ICE detainees are kept are barbaric.
Bad enough, for folk who are 'guilty', but to think it is acceptable for those who are innocent?