Migrants Hated everywhere??

Fallingstar

Aveline

I suspect Reform voters aren't thinking about the details foxie48, they just feel ignored and left out and want their concerns to be listened to not fobbed off.

I also feel disenchanted and ignored when it comes to government but on a whole raft of political issues not just illegal immigration. I understand people’s frustration but a bunch of millionaires in a company funded by donors like Musk and co are not the answer here. People need to question why politics has become the way it is and look at the trickle up of money from the bottom to the top, the decimation of the primary and secondary sectors, and those in the tertiary sector now struggling on low incomes. There are no workers rights or jobs for life, the younger generation will face futures with less and less employment opportunities whilst the rich get ever richer.
And offering honey on a stick in the form of populist anti immigration waffle
is not going to work. We need politicians with longterm vision not just looking at the next GE. And we need governments who are not scared of challenging the status quo and saying this country needs radical changes.

I feel the same way as you, I also feel disappointed with Labour, for why I voted. However I do not see Starmer as some sort of evil, useless, pariah and on the great scheme of things two years is not a great deal of time given how long and protracted our system of legislation can be!

There are Cities of Sanctuary all over the UK and Ireland.

sundowngirl

Allsorts

Why allow people who come from who knows where, into the UK arriving illegally on small boats having paid thousand's to criminals to come her many throwing documents into the sea. They go through safe countries to get here. We should close the entry system until the backlog is cleared, until who we know who is here. That's why we need ID cards, the people that object, whoever they are get nothing off the State. If you haven't lived next door to a hostel or gangs of young men roaming the parks and streets and you object, take them in. We should be like other countries, you learn this language and get a job, swear allegiance to our Country and no more bringing all your relatives over.If they commit crimes whilst waiting for legitimacy, send them back, our prisons are full already,.
Have the communities they are put into, no rights? it would appear not. No one listens to them. It is not racism its survival. No wonder the young have such mental health issues, its like the animals running a zoo. We appear to have more than enough money for housing illegal immigrants, than public services, NHS etc.

Brilliant post Allsorts!!

Many other countries do take AS arriving in this way, not just the UK.

We are not even in the 10 countries in the world, though I understand it might feel that way.

Foxie48- I know! However, Reform voters don't necessarily think the way you and I might.

Aveline

I suspect Reform voters aren't thinking about the details foxie48, they just feel ignored and left out and want their concerns to be listened to not fobbed off.

Hence my final paragraph! Voting for "change" is only of use if that "change" creates an improvement. Political parties need to think about how they can break through the misinformation and idle promises that many are seeing on social media and believing to be true. Reform are using the same tactics that Trump used and they are using foreign money to fund this.

Dorisdar, my small town ( fewer than 30,000 residents) is having a former student block made into an HMO with 68 units - effectively studios.
These are not intended for people awaiting decisions on their immigration status. There is a real shortage of accommodation for single people to rent locally. It's a seaside town, and the rise of the Airb&b has exacerbated the problem.

Good post Fallingstar.

You do all realise that Reform is not actually a political party.
Reform is a limited company.

Aveline

I suspect Reform voters aren't thinking about the details foxie48, they just feel ignored and left out and want their concerns to be listened to not fobbed off.

I also feel disenchanted and ignored when it comes to government but on a whole raft of political issues not just illegal immigration. I understand people’s frustration but a bunch of millionaires in a company funded by donors like Musk and co are not the answer here. People need to question why politics has become the way it is and look at the trickle up of money from the bottom to the top, the decimation of the primary and secondary sectors, and those in the tertiary sector now struggling on low incomes. There are no workers rights or jobs for life, the younger generation will face futures with less and less employment opportunities whilst the rich get ever richer.
And offering honey on a stick in the form of populist anti immigration waffle
is not going to work. We need politicians with longterm vision not just looking at the next GE. And we need governments who are not scared of challenging the status quo and saying this country needs radical changes.

Dorisdodar

Luckygirl3...I'm looking at this from a local level..as long as my town is being used as a dumping ground yes I will be voting Reform...we have enough slum areas...and that's what happens when people come and live in communities and don't take ownership of them.
Twenty percent of all supported Asylum Seekers are housed in the North West of England that's more than London. Can't you understand how that impacts on an already deprived area.
Reform are now in charge of my County Council and have now withdrawn from the Refugee resettlement scheme and have said they will prioritise British Citizens for housing.
My local councillor ( Reform ) is now trying to change the rules on HMOs so that in future any HMO needs planning permission. So these are changes local residents want that other parties didn't campaign for.

Fair enough. Explained like that I can see your reasoning.

I suspect Reform voters aren't thinking about the details foxie48, they just feel ignored and left out and want their concerns to be listened to not fobbed off.

Why would anyone think the multi-millionaire Farage gives a jot for the people of this country. Look how much time he has invested in Clacton. None.
Reform's 'policies' are so much hot air they have no chance of sorting out the illegal immigrant situation or anything else. Farage doesn't like work. He just enjoys talking and the rest of Reform are either incompetent or extreme in their views.

I suggest anyone thinking of voting for Reform needs to look carefully at what Reform's policy on immigration actually contains. Much of it would require the consent of parliament so unless they have a stonking majority at the next GE, I doubt it would get voted in. If it did, it would certainly have problems in the House of Lords.
Do Reform voters want people who have been given leave to stay being taken off the streets and being forcibly deported, possibly leaving dependent children behind?
Do they want huge detention sites locking up families whilst their status is being assessed?
Do they want their own personal rights diminished when dealing with the UK state?
Do they want to threaten the security of NI by breaching the Good Friday Agreement?
Have they actually considered what the consequences might be? I could go on and on and on......... but I won't because I doubt many people (Reform voters or not) have actually considered the issues and that is what Farage and his ilk, hope. They are in it to line their pockets. Just look across the pond and see what Trump is doing.

No they weren't right, but if you are referring to the comments about Carol Vordermans backside he retweeted those comments and knows it was a foolish thing to do.
Do you think Keir Starmer was right to back Mandelson when he knew about is association with a pedophile?

Someone upthread said that Reform is saying the right thing.
Are they?
Have you listened to what Reform politicians actually do say?
Were the disgusting things said by Robert Kenyon 'right'?

foxie48

What people don't seem to understand is that most countries with land and sea borders will get unregulated immigration. Sweden used to have an open door policy to migration and has tightened it's laws considerably in recent years so they are now comparable with what the UK has. However, they don't get many arriving by small boat because it's a 20 hour journey by ferry across the Baltic Sea. Try doing that in a rubber dingy even when the weather is good!
Germany has managed to reduce it's irregular migration by refusing entry at land borders (it's easier to do that if you are not sending people back into the sea!) but is a hub for people traffickers that are fueling the channel crossings.
Denmark's laws are now so draconian that it is an unattractive place for both migrants and genuine refugees raising a serious question of whether they are contravening humanitarian laws. The UK has also decreased immigration since the Labour government came into power but it is incredibly difficult to prevent people traffickers putting people into small boats without the cooperation of the rest of Europe and we chose to walk away from that.
There are no easy answers.

I agree with all that.

Turning someone away at a land border is very different from putting them back into a flimsy boat on a choppy sea to take their chances ...

There are indeed no easy answers and the hate rhetoric does not contribute anything to rational debate and decision making.

Dorisdodar

Wyllow3....We are not a big city though less than 75k residents...

Dorisdar

That doesnt take away from my point at all, does it?

You have still tried to impose a false narrative on the "City of Sanctuary" organisations.

Well, what I say is good for the volunteers who set it up. I challenge you - go and see who actually uses the City of Sanctuary, and you will find not just refugees but people who are homeless also using it as a place for a wash and a meal,

.....and needless to say, is it not better for those who are refugees to go and take part in things like English lessons preparation for work, and cooking and other "making things" activities than "nowhere to go" and nothing productive to do", because of our lack of willingness to provide work to them?

People coming to this country legally are not the issue or the problem. It is true that we have, and do emigrate to other countries, but we do so legally. Many of us have relations who have done just that and are living happily elsewhere. What we don't do is turn up and enter the country of our choice illegally and therein lies the problem! I would say to Hilary Benn, live in Whitechapel or Tower Hamlets, or as described by Dorisdodar for lets say one month and then perhaps you might get a flavour of what people are actually upset about! But of course HB.is never going to, or anyone else like him; all are safe in their ivory towers, protected by status and wealth, inherited and otherwise, from the daily struggles of hospital appointments, decent schools, lack of public transport, high energy bills and so on. None of the above will EVER affect the great and the not so good! Don't do as I do, but do as I say is very much alive and well. No wonder people are angry!

GrannyGravy13

The BBC had an item this week whereby they stated that there was disproportionately regarding violent and sex crimes committed by migrants/asylum seekers from Afghanistan, Sudan and a couple of other countries.

I didn’t catch the entire item, but snippets of it were replayed on BBC Newswatch this morning as there were complaints regarding these facts being reported…

Luckygirl9.27 and butterjam 00.16 - you both raise some excellent context. People are people wherever they come from. The UK has a long history of invading other countries and behaving badly.

GG13- White British individuals commit the vast majority of crimes in the UK simply due to making up the largest share of the population, and government data does not track offending rates by asylum or immigration status.

The relationship between migration, ethnicity, and crime is complex, with key points outlined below:

Data Limitations by Immigration Status: The Ministry of Justice (via the ONS FOI on Crime by Nationality) confirms it does not record offences by immigration status. Therefore, it is statistically impossible to directly compare asylum seekers and recent immigrants to White British citizens.

Arrest and Conviction Demographics: According to the Home Office Statistics on Ethnicity and the Criminal Justice System, White individuals accounted for roughly 79% of all arrests in England and Wales, broadly in line with their share of the general population.

Foreign National Prison Population: Foreign nationals (which groups together recent arrivals, long-term settlers, students, and asylum seekers) make up about 12% of the prison population in England and Wales, which aligns with their rough proportion of the adult population.

Underlying Socioeconomic Factors: Academic consensus via the Migration Observatory at Oxford University highlights that age structure and socioeconomic factors—rather than immigration or ethnic background—drive criminality. Migrants are more likely to be young adults, who commit more crimes natively, but when adjusted for age, immigrants generally commit crimes at similar or lower rates than native-born populations .

petra

I repeat. Only Albanians come by boat ( large and small 😉)
If you were an Albanian wanting to catch the coach first you would have to show your passport at the Bulgarian border.
There you would be asked what is your purpose for entering.
If you were allowed in and then made your way to the coach station you would have to show your passport again.
Unless you had crossed someone’s palm with silver 😉 your travel plan would unravel.
I know what I’m talking about as I lived in Bulgaria for 5 years and have driven from Albania to Bulgaria twice.

Yes Petra I totally believe you.

Dorisdodar

Luckygirl3...I'm looking at this from a local level..as long as my town is being used as a dumping ground yes I will be voting Reform...we have enough slum areas...and that's what happens when people come and live in communities and don't take ownership of them.
Twenty percent of all supported Asylum Seekers are housed in the North West of England that's more than London. Can't you understand how that impacts on an already deprived area.
Reform are now in charge of my County Council and have now withdrawn from the Refugee resettlement scheme and have said they will prioritise British Citizens for housing.
My local councillor ( Reform ) is now trying to change the rules on HMOs so that in future any HMO needs planning permission. So these are changes local residents want that other parties didn't campaign for.

That will be us then. I am in the NW.
At least our pot holes are being filled in since reform got in 👍🏻

Allsorts

Why allow people who come from who knows where, into the UK arriving illegally on small boats having paid thousand's to criminals to come her many throwing documents into the sea. They go through safe countries to get here. We should close the entry system until the backlog is cleared, until who we know who is here. That's why we need ID cards, the people that object, whoever they are get nothing off the State. If you haven't lived next door to a hostel or gangs of young men roaming the parks and streets and you object, take them in. We should be like other countries, you learn this language and get a job, swear allegiance to our Country and no more bringing all your relatives over.If they commit crimes whilst waiting for legitimacy, send them back, our prisons are full already,.
Have the communities they are put into, no rights? it would appear not. No one listens to them. It is not racism its survival. No wonder the young have such mental health issues, its like the animals running a zoo. We appear to have more than enough money for housing illegal immigrants, than public services, NHS etc.

Brilliant post Allsorts!!

Wyllow3....We are not a big city though less than 75k residents...

Sunshinegirls

15:35MT62

How awful having multiply undocumented young men plonked next door to you the government/council should hang their heads in shame.Do you remember Yvette Cooper and others with their signs bet they'd be pleased having HMOs next to them, oh but it's only us poor people living in already rundown neighbourhoods who have to have them.

I do remember, but how likely is she or other politicians going to have an HMO right on their doorstep? Or nice little villages!
‘Put them anywhere, but just not in my yard’ is the feeling I get from these people that say there is loads of room.

Luckygirl3...I'm looking at this from a local level..as long as my town is being used as a dumping ground yes I will be voting Reform...we have enough slum areas...and that's what happens when people come and live in communities and don't take ownership of them.
Twenty percent of all supported Asylum Seekers are housed in the North West of England that's more than London. Can't you understand how that impacts on an already deprived area.
Reform are now in charge of my County Council and have now withdrawn from the Refugee resettlement scheme and have said they will prioritise British Citizens for housing.
My local councillor ( Reform ) is now trying to change the rules on HMOs so that in future any HMO needs planning permission. So these are changes local residents want that other parties didn't campaign for.