What needs to happen to stop violent protest on the streets of Southampton against the police and to stop agitators wrongly targeting police officers on line with death threats?

It was an interview with an ex Metropolitan Police inspector, i think, Twaddle
My memory is shot to bits, so I'm reluctant to post something which isn't true, but I'll find it and post ot here.

What is needed is a serious review of the courses which address DEI for Police, Education and Health services. The interpretation of what is taught is variable, as in 'you are racially profiling a black boy with a knife' but an accusation of racism if upheld can ruin a career, which explains over-caution in some cases. Digwa's accusations blew up in his face, because of his lies but also the police mis-handling of the situation which foregrounded the case. The issue of instruction needs prompt examination.
Accusations of racism, far-right bigotry and fascism are banded about far too casually on GN; posters are anonymous and cannot be harmed professionally, but can be distressed.

In the spirit of Gransnet?

MissAdventure

I've seen it said that the police themselves are in fear of being labelled racist for not following the current training they're recieving.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Where have you seen that?

The difference between Mr Farage's reaction to the death of Sarah Everard and Henry Nowak are possibly related to how much he feels it can be used in his speeches, I fear.
Of course, he does not feel bound by the wishes of Mr Nowak's family...

I've seen it said that the police themselves are in fear of being labelled racist for not following the current training they're recieving.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I also disagree that being white and working class means putting up and shutting up, although Farage & Co would like to brainwash people that's how it is.

Well, I'm sorry to say that the police officers I know (male and female) don't feel the same way you describe, TerriBull. There is one exception and he's on the verge of retirement and racist and sexist - possibly not unusual for a male of his age. He complains constantly about "the youth of today" and makes snide comments about people of colour and Jews. He's on one of the committees I belong to and I see people rolling their eyes when he starts. The other police officers I know are some of the most sensible, fair and caring people I know. They have no problem treating everyone with respect.

Allegedly police officers feel moribund by the pressures of diversity to act in a certain way. Times Radio reports officers on the front line "absolutely" have fear of being accused of racism at the front of their minds. The perception from the pubic is that the law is not applied equally. The "white privilege" notion has particularly fired up the very section of white society who enjoy no such privileges and that notion makes no sense to them at all. Poor working class white boys are again and again reported as bottom of the heap. The Sikhs generally are good, law abiding people, also known to be hardworking achievers often entering well established professions such as pharmacy, medicine and the law. Every demographic will have their aberrations though. The demonstrations are of course awful, particularly seeing wild eyed men screaming in the face of shield carrying Police Officers who are just doing their job. The crux of the matter, here are a demographic who can only express their disaffection through violence, because they feel possibly rightly or wrongly there is preferential treatment within our society and none of that is coming their way. Politicians need to engage with this section of society, maybe listen to those grievances to assess whether they are in any way justified. So much of this comes on the back of a general frustration around a prevailing malaise that is felt surrounding issues such as the grooming gangs. To be white and working class "put up and shut up"

If those despicable men ignore the pleas from Henry’s father not to turn his death into another cause of hate and division, they’re not going to listen to anybody.
They don’t give a damn about the Nowak family and their loss. Anyone taking part in such violence or supporting them politically, ought to be ashamed.

Silvershadow

The Daily Mirror is a Labour supporting newspaper and always has been.

Then the Daily Mirror needs to re-evaluate its target audience as it is reckoned the average working man will now vote Reform,
So who is left to vote Labour?

The Financial Times is not a Labour supporting newspaper though Silvershadow. I don’t see how what he was saying and what he meant by his words, can be denied, whatever your political beliefs.

twaddle

nanna8

I think it is time everyone was treated equally and with respect. That might help. To my mind those police were exactly what they were trying not to be - racist. White lives matter, Black Lives Matter and so do any lives in between. Time the government realised and acknowledged this.

The irony is that there is still evidence that blacks are discriminated against by the police, but I agree that everybody should be treated equally. The likes of Farage just wait for an opportunity to point the finger and claim that whites are treated unfavourably.

There is no doubt that individual police officers mishandled this case. Even if Henry Nowak had been racist, the police owed him a duty of care without fear nor favour.

That doesn't mean that the whole system is rotten, no matter how much Farage and his ilk go on. The way he behaved yesterday in Parliament was disgraceful, completely ignoring Mr Nowak's plea. If ever proof were needed that he doesn't care one jot about the victims, but exploits these cases for his own purpose, that was it.

I agree with you both- everyone should be treated equally and with respect.

There is no doubt the officers on the scene mis handled the situation but the whole system is not rotten.

There is no evidence of 2 tier policing as Farage claims, in fact the evidence points to the exact opposite.

Guardian newspaper: Neil Basu, former head of counter-terrorism, a former Metropolitan police detective who became Britain’s most senior ethnic minority officer, added: “When a victim says something you take it seriously, but that is different to believing it. The policy is supposed to stop police officers ignoring victims without investigating.”

The policy came out of the 1999 Macpherson report into the murder of Stephen Lawrence and was supposed to guide the recording of hate crimes and force better investigation of them.

What is the evidence on ‘two-tier’ policing in the UK disadvantaging white people?

There are no official figures on anti-white bias in operational policing, but the statistics that do exist show longstanding racial bias against ethnic minorities, and especially against black people.

Police use of force – such as Taser use – and coercive powers such as stop and search are greater against black people than white people, and police chiefs cannot explain why.

The police race action plan, launched after the murder of George Floyd in the US, was meant to tackle the enduring problems police have with race. But there has been little improvement.

An independent assessment of the multimillion pound plan concluded it had had no “meaningful impact”, with police chiefs lukewarm in their commitment. As Basu points out, every independent report going back to the 1980s, including first by Lord Scarman, then Macpherson in 1999 and Louise Casey in 2023, has found police failing on race. They made promises but little if anything improved, said Basu. He added that claims the police had overreacted to evidence of bias against black people by being biased against white people were laughable: “How can it be an overreaction to something that was barely reacted to in the first place?”

The Daily Mirror is a Labour supporting newspaper and always has been.

twaddle

By talking about rage, he's giving people justification for violence. He won't condemn it because his aim is to disrupt the state.

I agree- Farage is intentionally exploiting Henry's murder to mobilise support for Reform- as in first trigger 00.56.

The Daily Mirror has Farage covering the whole of the front page "This shows exactly who he is" reporting they spotted him at 3.26pm after PMQs in a swanky private member's club- evidently a busy man.

Mamie

Silvershadow

Mamie

I also suspect that there may well be influences involved to destabilise the country using social media and audiovisual media, by sources from beyond the UK.
The meme of the photos of George Floyd and of Starmer taking the knee combined with erroneous allegations that the Prime Minister had been silent on the Nowak case, makes me very suspicious.

He did take the knee. So did Rayner. Nothing questionable about it. Footballers were also made to take the knee in every match.

Where did I say that Starmer did not take the knee? Many people did after the shocking events of 2020. What I don't believe is that all the people who mentioned in the last week, suddenly, spontaneously remembered it.
This is propaganda at work. I have no doubt that the sources are dubious.

Of course it's propaganda at work. I despair that people are making excuses for it.

Jane43

LemonJam

Allsorts

Do not agree with violence, never thought I would ever say this but agree with Farage. Things are out of hand now. How could anyone leave that boy dying treating him like a criminal. Violence is not what his family wanted and those protests should not have happened but things must change.

The violence does need to stop. Violent protest does not serve Henry or his family. They expressly asked that politicians do not use their son's tragic murder to cause division. Farage needs to condemn the violence not make things worse or they will get even more out of hand.

What could Farage say or do differently to stop the violent disorder in Southampton, that lead to 11 officers being injured and damage to peoples homes and cars? That is not the answer to anything and Henry's family doesn't want the violence either.

There were repeated calls for Farage to condemn the violence yesterday in parliament and he refused to do so, he should have done - that’s what he could say or do differently.

Yes- Farage was booed and jeered by so many around him of all part colours save for his Reform colleagues. You could hear the raised voices calling for him to condemn the voices.

Thanks Casdon

Casdon

He didn’t use those actual words, but he clearly meant that. Here’s the take from the FInancial Times, which is usually very balanced. It really was a rabble rousing speech, and that’s why the political fallout has been so strong.
www.ft.com/content/b51f600b-4383-48fb-8f63-40a1ef76e56d?syn-25a6b1a6=1

OK 👍🏻

I am away from home at the moment, and listening to people’s conversations around the hotel over breakfast this week. There is a lot of anger over this murder.

That is in reply to your comment sbout white on white racism.
Sorry I didn't take time to reference.
There can be white on white racism.

It wasn’t a veiled threat. He said what was likely to happen because people are sick and tired of two tiered policing, double standards, pandering to minorities. Not on Gransnet of course but this site is not representative of a lot of what people think in the UK. If it were, there’d be no Reform party.

The same taking to the streets as what happens in London every week with the Palestine protests. But, of course, that’s ok.

LizzieDrip

He also used the ‘veiled threat’ that the violence on the streets is ‘likely to get worse’.

What makes his words a veiled threat ?

It’s a probably a fair assessment of the situation.

Apologies, I’m in a play cafe with my granddaughter and got distracted, that was for Maremia.

He didn’t use those actual words, but he clearly meant that. Here’s the take from the FInancial Times, which is usually very balanced. It really was a rabble rousing speech, and that’s why the political fallout has been so strong.
www.ft.com/content/b51f600b-4383-48fb-8f63-40a1ef76e56d?syn-25a6b1a6=1

He also used the ‘veiled threat’ that the violence on the streets is ‘likely to get worse’.

Maremia

It worked in London. When landlords said 'No Irish', GG13.

What has that got to do with Henry’s murder…