More young better off in benefits

As we married late we (DH and I) effectively have children almost across two generations, 24,26,28,40 and 42.

I see no differences between any of them as they’ve all been brought up in a fairly similar way, all in work, all can follow instructions.

I do think expectations are higher at younger ages but a good dose of realism soon sets in.

The workplace has changed so much anyway. My brothers grandson did a degree and has applied for no ends of jobs without success. He’s working in a bar restaurant until he gets a job that he’d trained for. His sister didn’t go to university but trained as a hairdresser. She’s never been out of work, has gone mobile and is doing well. I think learning a trade and working for yourself is the answer. In our area, tree surgeons are in high demand, gardeners, plumbers, painters etc. you have to wait weeks for them to have a gap to fit you in.

I really don't think one can generalise David in that way! I've met large numbers of "just ex" or current students and they just vary so much! True, the ones I meet are ones who are working in "people jobs" capable and helpful.

but goodness me!

I can look at upcoming grandchildren and can tell you that DGS1 is going to find "people things" difficult unless its on computers as he is a whizz

and that DGD and DGS2 are going to be super and outgoing and enjoy engaging .

Maybe many girls get there younger on the whole anyway?

Young people are much less mature than previous generations, their expectations of the world of employment is grossly exaggerated by schools and universities. There are plenty of jobs the UK is bringing in migrants to do them.

20 yrs ago I employed a lot of students weekends and holidays mostly they were good, turned up on time and followed instructions. Working in a team the older members mentored them, some stayed, some moved on, it was a pleasure to see the gain confidence.

My recent experience has been with Grandsons polite and good manners but communicated in grunts and would not take simple instructions, so completing a straightforward job was a challenge. I gave up with the second and did the work myself, now at 21 he has become human and does listen to advice and instructions.

One of the other problems is that quite a few University degree level young people end up in entry level roles that those leaving school with a handful of GCSE’s could fulfil.

A big overhaul of training posts and apprenticeships needs to happen (yet again) in order to get our young people into sustainable employment.

The previous govt introduced a scheme whereby all young people under 25 had to enter a government training scheme in a wide area of job roles, or have their benefit stopped.

The idea was that the young person would be funded entirely by the govt, by them still receiving their basic Universal Credit payments. So all the companies/organisations taking part effectively got these young people for “free” and the young person got 6 months training and experience.

Also a number of “real” jobs had to be made available and anyone completing the full 6 months would get a guaranteed interview.

Many many different companies took part, it was partially successful, but it was flawed, it required a huge set up of IT, resource from different DWP departments and lacked the requisite checking up on both companies and young people.

It could have worked really well, some organisations, Nando’s for example, entered entirely into the spirit of the project, it gave many many young people the opportunity to learn, and employed a sizeable number of young people on a permanent basis.

However, some organisations were dreadful, many many young people didn’t bother turning up half the time and some who did were lazy and rude!

It was a shame as in theory it was a great scheme.

I know this because I worked on this scheme for the last 18 months of my working life AND my son was made to attend such a scheme, for which I was very grateful, because at that time he was a nightmare, having spent his two years at college in lockdown and being taught (or not) virtually.

Silvershadow

AI has a lot to do with it I read. Less entry level jobs for these young people to go into. Times having changed. More automation, less need for people.

I agree and it’s so frustrating that none of our governments think about things like this.

Surely 5 and 10 year plans around future employment and what skills/professions will be required and then training put into place for people to enable them to fill these roles.

For example, there will be less roles in certain areas when automation/AI is in place, but people will be needed to initially create the automation etc. I read that we have a huge shortage of knowledgable staff in AI, as well as still having shortages of nurses/carers/teachers/police.

AI has a lot to do with it I read. Less entry level jobs for these young people to go into. Times having changed. More automation, less need for people.

Jobseeker’s Allowance has *not existed… *

Sorry for typo

twaddle

*on the news it states, ‘we are spending more on paying these benefits than getting young people into work’*

The above does not mean that young people are better off on benefits than working.

What it means is that the state pays more in unemployment benefits than it does on schemes to support the unemployed find work.

👏👏👏👏

I can tell you all quite categorically that most people ARE better off working.

Jobseeker’s Allowance has existed nationally for some time and its replacement, Universal Credit, is paid to both those entirely out of work and as a top up to those working in low income jobs. It’s not based on hours worked any more but purely on income earned and it’s a tapering system so no sudden cut off.

Housing benefit, whether paid to those in work or not working is capped by the local authority local housing allowance and therefore capped.

Things only change if people within the household are also eligible for PIP (replaced disability living allowance) and by having this benefit paid to a household member it acts as a gateway to other concessions.

All of the above only applies to working age people, so currently 18-67 year olds.

One of the issues mentioned today is that the government is not spending enough money on training and proper apprenticeships on the 18-25 age group and that there are considerably less “entry” level jobs available currently.

However NEETS (not in education or training) have been high for well over a decade now, so both this and the previous governments are failing our young people.

I agree with your interpretation twaddle.

on the news it states, ‘we are spending more on paying these benefits than getting young people into work’

The above does not mean that young people are better off on benefits than working.

What it means is that the state pays more in unemployment benefits than it does on schemes to support the unemployed find work.

I think you have misunderstood.
More is spent on benefits than it is on help into work. That does not mean that young people are better off on benefits!

Our youngest adult child is working in hospitality as he continues to seek the professional role in which he has a first class degree. He works on average 40-50 hours per week. We sold the family home a year ago and were able to gift him the deposit on a modest home in what is a relatively cheap part of England. His MW role covers all of his outgoings, allows him to run a car and take modest holidays (as a single man).
Were he to lose that role, he would certainly have to sell his home and give up his car.

I’m afraid you have fallen for nonsense.

There are definitely some people of all ages fall into the category of able to work with support and flexibility and part time opportunities but where are those Jobs.

I think a lot of young people not working with mental health problems are classified as long -term sick rather than disabled.If it's stress, for eg, then although this may last more than 6 months, it's not "expected" to.

I do think it would be better to have more support to get as many of these young people back to work as are able (with support & flexibility from the employer initially).Because the routine and the self-respect and the socialising and the achievement of overcoming the barriers are all positive for their mental health.

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That’s a whole other issue to do with disability benefits and PIP. That’s not the same thing as suggesting that a fit and able young couple are better off not working.

Please, never, ever, confuse or conflate the two. The desperation of wanting to work but being unable due to mental ill heath - you need to meet them to understand?

The callous way some politicians treat them is utterly shameful.

What worries me are the young people who are not in work or education - and not on benefits either, the ones slipping through everything available to them.

Last year I needed someone off garden help so messaged a 'student' who used to post on Facebook intermittently looking for gardening work etc. he came and worked for me for a day and then asked if he could bring a couple of friends in. I said yes, I would pay them minimum wage. When they came, they looked uite young, but they worked well. The oyungest of them in particular was not only a hard worker, but he organised and managed the other two lads to do the work in the uickest and most efficient way. I was really impressed by him.

I chatted to them when I took out drinks and biscuits and so on but kept it fairly light . On the third day I did begin to enuire casually about when they left school and what training they were going into.

They were due to do another half days work the following day, but did not turn up. Obviously my uestions frightened them off.

Those three lads are off the records, not in school and education and not claiming benefits. Now and again I remember them, and it bothers me. The youngest lad, was clearly bright, a hard worker and natural manager. He assessed the job, worked out the best way to do it and then organised the older boys to do it. he could have a good future with those natural skills. But he has dropped out and will not be easily encouraged back in again.

I decuced from what they said that the younger one was still under 16 and that all three of them had just stopped going to school around the age of 14. They lived at hom and just worked 'on the black', doing odd jobs like mine, two were cousins and would go to work on building sites for odd days to provide themselves with enough cash for their needs.

That’s a whole other issue to do with disability benefits and PIP. That’s not the same thing as suggesting that a fit and able young couple are better off not working.

This has been in the news a lot recently.

There's plenty of articles about it

www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/newsroom/welfare-pays-more

An adult couple working full time both on minimum wage would be taking home over £45,000 per year.

Perhaps you could give us a worked example of how they would be better off claiming benefits.

Obviously housing costs are very high so it should take into account any housing benefit they might be entitled to.

You asked how I found this out.
In the last 4 months I have talked to two young couples who both mentioned they are better off on benefits than working.

Then today. as some pointed out. on the news it states, ‘we are spending more on paying these benefits than getting young people into work’

Thank you valdali

Oh, maybe a few hours more.

petra

Jaxjacky

Where is your information on that please Cath9?

It’s been all over the news today, plus it was brought up on Any Questions.

I can see an article discussing that less is spent on supporting youngsters into work, not, as Cath stated, that working is financially worse for some people than claiming benefits? Two very different points.

The standard rate of Universal credit for a 16 yo is £358 monthly. We paid our 16yo apprentice over £1000 monthly and this was the minimum apprentice rate.On £1450 monthly now at 17.

the minimum wage for 18 year olds is £10. 85 perhour so if he works more than 32 hours PER MONTH he's better off working for minimum wage.

There are exceptions eg disablility or parents, but no, the averaage 18 year old isn't better off on benefit any longer.