A terrible crime unpunished!! Imho 🙄

Life in prison for any rape conviction. End of.

Why are we surprised men get away from the consequences of their actions?

If he said she said cannot be used
If what was she wearing cannot be used
If she was drinking cannot be used
Even if the crime is proven and recorded, men and women will protect the rapists at all costs, with the most stupid reasons

And I doubt this is the first time they have raped anybody, it is the first time they are caught

Let me be clear someone with ADHD is as likely to commit crimes including rape, as anyone else, but having ADHD does not make you any more likely to act in this way than any other person and is neither an explanation nor a mitigating factor in cases such as this.

I don't think people with ADHD, low IQ etc will be locked up; it will simply be used to excuse every misdemeanour, whether minor or major. These terms are applied far too readily, with insufficient evidence.
This sentencing is a perfect example, from someone with an imperfect understanding. The Defence Barristers will have exploited it to the nth degree.

Galaxy, same with some diagnosed. With adhd when the root of the problem is trauma and attachment disorder. I say this as gran to two boys diagnosed with adhd despite secure, loving homes. Ido accept fine wiring and geneticsplay a role. So does helping children manage their feelings and behaviour

nanna8

That judge needs investigating if he does this sort of thing on a regular basis. Not appropriate at all and little concern for the poor victims.

I agree, and suspended from duty whilst this is going on. If he has no sympathy for the victims and only feels this for the perpetrators I would seriously doubt his actual motives.

Chemical castration is the only punishment.

Galaxy

I agree and very dangerous, I do wonder what people think will happen if they keep using neurodiversity as a reason for criminal activity.

We won’t be very far from ‘Let’s keep all these low IQ/ADHD people locked up, just in case’ territory if such conditions are used as an excuse for criminality.

My son has ADHD, he’s never hurt a fly and never would. So far undiagnosed but two of my GC likely to fall under the same umbrella. They’re both delightful children and violence would never cross their minds. In fact I suspect they’re more likely to be victim to it than anything else.

Regarding the case in the OP, I read yesterday that the two girls were assaulted on different occasions, some months apart. I’d assumed it was at the same time. Surely that and the filming/SM aspect shows planning aforethought and hardly a momentary lapse of control.

Spent my life working with children with a range of needs, and I agree as well. That's putting aside the fact that many professionals are currently raising concerns about trauma being misdiagnosed as autism/adhd, etc.

MOnica, I have four neurodiverse grandchildren. I totally agree with yiu

I share people's disdain for " low IQ" being a defence for committing a violent crime. Some of us have experience, either professionally, or socially, with those who have limited cognitive ability.
I have worked in special education and would challenge anyone suggesting that these students are more likely to assault others than mainstream pupils.
The corollary of this, of course, is that in sentencing, those of higher than average IQ , should be subject to a stiffer penalty..

I think it uite ridiculous that ADHD ualifies for any benefit at all, although it does not ualify for Attendance Allowance unless the person claiming it is over 65. at all. As i wrote above ADHD runs through my family and friends and others I know have it as well.

My grandson has ADHD and disautonomia, which causes him far more trouble than his ADHD. No way would I consider his problems ualify him for aany benefits. Yes, life can be inconvenient, some minor adjustments have been made by his school, but there is no justification for benefits

I know there are guidelines about sentencing minors which advise compassion but there is also the need to protect girls and women from further attacks from these boys in the future.

Dealing with them leniently for these very serious crimes against young girls is going to make them more likely to re-offend, especially as they have limited intelligence.

The perpetrators of these rapes are not children; they are capable of rape therefore past puberty. I heard them referred to as juveniles, which is a more appropriate term.
Of course they have ADHD and low intellectual ability; do people not realise that an ADHD diagnosis comes with an attendance allowance, hence an added reason to acquire one.

And as for returning these rapists to the care of their family; who has been responsible for their upbringing? There is a move to hold parents responsible for the behaviour of their offspring; it certainly should be applied in this case.

A stiff punishment won't undo the damage done to the victims , and is probably too late to reform the perpetrators, but it will act as a deterrent to those who enjoyed watching and possibly thought of joining in the fun.

That judge needs investigating if he does this sort of thing on a regular basis. Not appropriate at all and little concern for the poor victims.

Being from a travellers community or of low intelligence or having ADHD is no excuse for committing rape. If they know how to rape and how to then film this they need to be punished for this.
Perhaps the judge would care to meet with the victims and their families to explain his leniency.

I’ve read this morning this Judge has a history of leniency in sentencing serious offences.

I found his use of adhd and low IQ as somehow excusing these horrific offences inappropriate and offences. His focus on the needs of the perpetrators and disregard for the victims shameful

As if having a low IQ and ADHD is relevant. The judge is a misogynist and should be removed. Seething 😤

I agree and very dangerous, I do wonder what people think will happen if they keep using neurodiversity as a reason for criminal activity.

I do get irritated the way ADHD gets used as an exonerating reason for criminal behaviour. ADHD threads through our family across the generations.

I have friends who have ADHD and one of the tradesmen we are currently employing has ADHD, as does his son. In no case has this undermined our sense of right and wrong or led us into consenting to criminal acts.

Yes it's a bit of a trope (examine their hard drives) but you have to wonder why some judges and magistrates seem to be unduly lenient in these and other cases. There have been reports of adults with thousands of photos of child sexual abuse on their systems who seem to 'get off' very lightly. The classic 'they only looked at photos' doesn't cut it, every photo meant a child suffered so a pervert could enjoy watching the abuse.
One of the victims has said it felt like a brick to her face. Why would a victim relive the worst event of their life in court when the perpetuators get off virtually scot-free? There wasn't even any doubt in this case, they'd filmed and posted video of the rapes.

SueDonim

I’m another who is shocked by these lenient sentences. Not criminalising the boys? They are criminals so treat them as such. I don’t accept the low intelligence excuse - they’re not so stupid they didn’t know how to film and upload for kicks, and they committed the crimes not once but twice.

The poor victims have been sidelined and dismissed. It’s they who will be serving a life sentence, not the perpetrators.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I do wonder about that judge tbh.😲

I’m relieved the sentences are to be reviewed. I’ve always supported non custodial sentences in youth offending but not in this case. Surely they could have been sent to Secure Units, like the ones the murderers of Ajamie Bukger went to. They’re locked in. There is education on site and direct work focussed on their offences. When older, transfer to prison can happen
These were horrific premeditated offences, filmed and shared on line. ADHD and low IQ should not preclude loss of liberty

Magenta8

One of the mitigating factors that was taken into consideration by the judge was the fact that the boys are of very low intelligence. The implication being that they didn't understand that assaulting and raping girls and posting indecent films of the events on social media was wrong and should therefore be treated leniently.

To my mind the fact that they were too dim to realise the implications of what they were doing increases the risk of their doing the same thing again, especially as they were only lightly punished the first time.

They were intelligent enough to film and post on social media…

I didn't know they were from the travelling community, but there are some from that demographic who appear to get away with breaking the law Moving into fields and concreting over those spaces in the most opportunistic way, disregarding planning laws which anyone else would fall foul of. This rape is far more serious than any of that though and until Fallingstar pointed out up thread, it wasn't an isolated incident.

Should low intelligence be equated with not knowing right from wrong? that comes across as a get out clause. Possibly, more to do with how they've been raised and in that their parents are culpable. There should be an innate sense that committing certain acts are really wrong imo, they would have been very aware of their victims distress, maybe they're just plain wicked. Too much skirting around really bad happenings and coming up with a multitude of excuses for very base behaviour.