Revolving door politics

Airdrieonian

Why, we suffered 14 years of incompetent tories which there appears to be a collective amnesia about. We allow the media to influence us on a daily basis with really non existent or bad journalism. All knee jerk reactions from people you don't have a clue. Its a totally different world now a world where Starmer is much respected overseas but not by the daily mail readers in this country.

Typically judgemental, from someone who probably reads the DM themselves, in order to know what others are complaining about.

Why, we suffered 14 years of incompetent tories which there appears to be a collective amnesia about. We allow the media to influence us on a daily basis with really non existent or bad journalism. All knee jerk reactions from people you don't have a clue. Its a totally different world now a world where Starmer is much respected overseas but not by the daily mail readers in this country.

It's Rachel Reeves that should definitely go the trouble and havoc that woman has caused is dreadful.all she's does is put up taxes every time she opens her mouth

Fallingstar

But as I said if the plotters win I won’t vote Labour again because they are just like the Tories, believing that simply changing hats will work.

Same!

I’m a Labour Party member. If there’s leadership election, I’ll remain as a member so I can have my vote in that election.

Depending who wins, my party membership will be thrown in the bin and I won’t vote Labour again.

Feel the same way, Fallingstar. The country is being directed somewhat ironically by the right wing press and the far left minority of Labour MPs.
The very last thing the UK needs right now is another change of leadership.
I do wish that the majority of MPs wishing the PM to remain would be more vociferous in their support and that KS hangs fast.
Unfortunately, it’s usually those who shout loudest who determine outcomes.

But as I said if the plotters win I won’t vote Labour again because they are just like the Tories, believing that simply changing hats will work.

And all the voters interviewed after the council elections who said they’d given Labour a go but now thought they’d give Reform a go, seem to looking for someone who can walk on water rather than a run of the mill PM.
These are tough times and I can’t see any party doing much more than Labour are doing. And as for small boats, the Tories couldn’t fix it, but at least Starmer is mending bridges with Europe in order to find a joint approach. As for Reform, their policy on small boats - bringing on the Royal Navy is completely bonkers.

*so what magic wand

I just wonder what a new PM would do differently?
Or any PM from any party?
The country is suffering a cost of living crisis which is being made worse by the illegal war in Iran, do what magic wand do others have that Starmer doesn’t?

A reshuffle is not going to save Starmer too many of the top team are saying "go, Streeting was demoted for being one of the rebels.
For me bringing old timers like Mandelson and Brown into the mix was desperation, old ideas from yesterday's failures is hardly progress.
It's only a matter of time now, too many have lost confidence in him.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

No wonder Streeting had a face like thunder this morning as he left No.10

Breaking news:
He is about to RESIGN to prompt a leadership contest. 😮

It won’t necessarily prompt a leadership contest if he resigns though, the media do run away with themselves.

I value loyalty, and agreement to phased handover after a proper process later in the year. I don’t value wannabes, so if this what has happened I am disappointed in Streeting.

Didn’t Starmer promise to End the Chaos?
He’s doing his best I suppose but nearly everyone wants him gone.
Better the devil you know I say.
But I think he’s on his way out … he just hasn’t realised it yet.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

No wonder Streeting had a face like thunder this morning as he left No.10

Breaking news:
He is about to RESIGN to prompt a leadership contest. 😮

I haven’t seen that yet but it wouldn’t surprise me.
Streeting really does have his eye on being PM. As do others. But I can only see Burnham as a front runner and he can’t stand as a candidate as far as I know.
Certainly there are machinations afoot and I don’t think it reflects well upon the party at all. I don’t always vote Labour and doubt I will do so again, and it isn’t so much Starmer that is putting me off, I actually warmed to him in his principled stance over the illegal war on Iran, it is all thus skullduggery, that isn’t about the country at all, but to do with political opportunism.

Fallingstar

Sacking Streeting would be a very bad idea and he would just regroup with other disaffected and disenchanted Labour members stirring the pot.
Starmer would be wiser to advise Streeting that a reshuffle is going to take place and he would then demote him to a much less prominent cabinet position or move him up to a more advantageous role and keep his enemies closer.

If Starmer intentionally "demotes" Streeting from Health Secretary he would make himself look weak and vengeful. It would also make Streeting angry and disaffected. Then the force of Streeting together with his allies may increase against Starmer.

It may also lead the public to loose even further confidence and trust in Starmer's judgement.

If Starmer does a cabinet reshuffle (moving the deckchairs) I shall be looking carefully at the demotions and (I apologise but I am human) - I will speculate on Starmer's reasons and motivations.

I am no Streeting supporter. If he becomes the heir to Starmer as PM in the coming days/weeks- I fear he may not lead the party into the next election.

It is both Starmer's blessing and curse that Burnham is not an MP right now. It is his curse in managing and dealing with the forces against him detracts form his ability do his job as PM at the same time.

Starmer has lost McSweeney (as a result of the Mandelson debacle) - who did most of Starmer's politicking. Of McSweeney's 2 successors the most able, who had the most effective lobbying relationships, is already now on maternity leave. Another great judgement call. Starmer should have known that poor local election results for Labour, so soon after the Mandelson debacle- would render his tenure as PM vulnerable.

No wonder Streeting had a face like thunder this morning as he left No.10

Breaking news:
He is about to RESIGN to prompt a leadership contest. 😮

Sacking Streeting would be a very bad idea and he would just regroup with other disaffected and disenchanted Labour members stirring the pot.
Starmer would be wiser to advise Streeting that a reshuffle is going to take place and he would then demote him to a much less prominent cabinet position or move him up to a more advantageous role and keep his enemies closer.

Can’t quote for some reason.

Anne Widdecombe: one person’s wise old owl is another’s mad old fool.

Pure speculation. I like him because he appears more hands on than most, but it was a very brief meeting, much advertised.
Perhaps Starmer had to go and finish ironing his shirt

Why sack Wes? He looks almost semi competent in a difficult department. If Wes has been booted out, MPs should be informed before the vote of confidence in Starmer.

It occurred to me he may have been sacked.
We shall see.

Well Wes spent exactly 17 minutes in a meeting with Starmer, I’d loved to have been a fly on the wall. I also think better the devil you know. There is no obvious other PM material IMO.

"Neither 'the markets' nor the Bank of England have any say in who is PM. It ultimately comes down to the party which chose that person as its leader".

I disagree. The financial markets and the Bank of England have no direct or procedural say in a parliamentary vote of confidence. However they do have considerable soft power, acting as a key barometer of economic stability, that triggers political pressure and weakens a PM's authority and/or voter confidence.

E.g the cost of borrowing has gone up and value of gilts down. This is reminiscent to both the public and the government of Liz Truss- when she spooked the market. That played a big part towards her downfall, over a matter of days. The public do not take well the their mortgage costs going up....

The SNP has forced a vote on Starmer’s future as an amendment to the King’s Speech. I wonder how that will go?

GrannyGravy13

Fallingstar

I didn’t miss it GrannyGravy, am not a fan of this lynching by the media on past occasions either.

👍

Lynching by media is as old as journalism (300+ years?) Sometimes journalists told the truth about government inadequacy (like the famous series of despatches from the Crimea in the 19th C which dispelled myths about the state of the British army), sometimes it's scurrilous partisan nonsense.

There's nothing new about what's happening now..

ronib

We can’t foresee what the electorate will think in 2029. But don’t the markets take over? Isn’t it the Bank of England who will decide whether Starmer stays or goes?

Neither 'the markets' nor the Bank of England have any say in who is PM. It ultimately comes down to the party which chose that person as its leader.

Both can make life difficult for the PM, mostly because the electorate and the media believe the 'household economy' myth. The Bank of England is particularly pernicious because it is keeping inflation high (fuelling the cost of living crisis experienced by an increasing no of people) by keeping interest rates high. And it's keeping interest rates high because of its blinkered and completely foolish belief that there is only one way to control inflation.

But high interest rates only work if the inflation is caused by too much money in the economy chasing too few goods to buy. Higher interest rates then take money out of the economy, damping down demand and restoring the balance between spending and provision of goods and services.

Our current inflation isn't caused by this. Far from there being too much money circulating in the economy there isn't enough. Consumers aren't spending as much because their income is going on the basics. When people aren't spending, businesses struggle or fail, with all the knock on effects of job losses and higher demands on welfare.

But our current inflation is caused by a shortage of supply, notably energy in the form of oil imprisoned in the Persian Gulf. Historically this has tended to be the primary cause of inflation since the 1970s. This being so, no amount of raising or retaining high interest rates is going to make any difference to inflation.

The Bank of England is nominally independent, though it belongs to the state. But ultimately it is bound by legislation to act on the instructions of the government. it did this in the GFC when it carried out Quantitative Easing (QE) to prevent banks failing (and us losing the money in our accounts) and again to cover the cost of the covid crisis.

There is nothing, apart from convention, to stop the government telling the BoE to reduce interest rates. But it won't because it doesn't understand the causes of inflation and the Treasury, which doesn't seem to understand them either, is both very powerful and is led by an incompetent Chancellor.