Revolving door politics

When Starmer was elected I thought he would be a safe leader, dull and uninspired but able to introduce some stability. How well he deceived us.
My distrust of Starmer began when I discovered he and Richard Hermer had worked Pro Bono as Human Rights lawyers for Phil Shiner, a corrupt lawyer involved in prosecuting British soldiers who fought in the Iraqi war. All accusations were proved to be false and the witnesses bribed; Shiner was struck off and given a prison sentence. Some time later I learned Starmer was enthusiastically working to repeal the Legacy Act, brought in to prevent prosecution of British veterans, and was intending to continue to prosecute veterans from the Troubles. His own soldiers. I found it hard to believe any politician could do that, let alone a Prime Minister.
This was followed by his dissembling about transgender issues, return to the EU, prosecution of the Grooming Gangs, the punishing of party members whom he considered failed him, and his promotion of Mandelson against all advice. All these contributed to the dismal local election results, and blaming the press cannot alter the facts.
Keir Starmer should go soon. He has been opposed and is therefore more dangerous, and I think, deluded about his ability.
My opinions are based on my research and my observation.
I am not a Labour voter, but he is at present my Prime Minister, and I fear for the future.

mae13

Waste no tears or compassion when senior politicians fall. They have their appropriate safety nets in place.

Losing their jobs was probably the best thing, financially, that could have happened to Liz and Boris.

Part-time directorships galore are just waiting for them - you won't see them anywhere near a JobCentre. The Westminster Club will take care of them.

Johnson was always a lazy leader who I’m sure relishes his post PM financial benefits. Imo Starmer wanted the job because he actually wanted to do good. If he wanted to he could just walk away with all the benefits but he isn’t doing so because he isn’t one to give up on a job he’d worked for. His strength of character, with all that’s happening around him, astounds me. As for Truss, she’s using her post PM position to support Trump. I can say with total certainty that when Keir is no longer PM he won’t squander that position.

I just wonder if those who said they were casting a protest vote to get rid of Starmer recently actually realise that they voted for a political party, not just a PM, indeed Starmer can’t make political decisions unilaterally, the Labour Party make decisions together, with the help of senior aides etc., indeed even Starmer’s speeches are written for him.
So if a new leader from the very same party that made these decisions together is to replace Starmer, what actually changes??

mae13

Waste no tears or compassion when senior politicians fall. They have their appropriate safety nets in place.

Losing their jobs was probably the best thing, financially, that could have happened to Liz and Boris.

Part-time directorships galore are just waiting for them - you won't see them anywhere near a JobCentre. The Westminster Club will take care of them.

I think you mistake being g stepped down or resigning as Leader is “loss of a job” these people still have their roles as MPs until such time as they lose their seats at either a by-election or a General Election.

Cossy

Oreo I think the inference here is Starmer is rubbish, but less rubbish than the other 400+ Labour MPs, which is a nonsense frankly!

I agree.

Waste no tears or compassion when senior politicians fall. They have their appropriate safety nets in place.

Losing their jobs was probably the best thing, financially, that could have happened to Liz and Boris.

Part-time directorships galore are just waiting for them - you won't see them anywhere near a JobCentre. The Westminster Club will take care of them.

Oreo I think the inference here is Starmer is rubbish, but less rubbish than the other 400+ Labour MPs, which is a nonsense frankly!

Mollygo

But Oreo even though you may be right,
who out of that shower would be a good replacement? I haven’t noticed any of the outs volunteering or recommending each other.

That’s because a leadership election hasn’t been triggered. If and when it is, then you’ll see plenty of jostling and no actions for potential leaders.

Personally, I’d like to see a structured timetable for Starmer to quietly agree to accept a Ministerial role, such as Foreign Secretary and a quiet calm leadership contest taking place in the Autumn. Will this happen? I very much doubt it.

Mollygo

But Oreo even though you may be right,
who out of that shower would be a good replacement? I haven’t noticed any of the outs volunteering or recommending each other.

They need to have the backing of a certain number of other MP’s.
Most are wanting Burnham so will probably wait until he’s an MP before acting.
Streeting and Rayner are both going to throw hats into the ring at some point soon.
I don’t get all the ‘but who can possibly replace Starmer’ comments, as if he has done the job so fabulously that nobody else can even get near😄

keepingquiet

I really agree that we have dropped into the trap of celebrity politics a la Donald Trump.

This really depresses me as it is not the way we have conducted politics before in this country.

We are heading for nothing but conflict and turmoil and it is hard to see how we pull ourselves out of it.

I think it is unfair to blame young people though because the demographics don't back this up.

Also whoever suggested that coalitions are the way forward needs to remember the last one.

Politics in the UK has never recovered from the crash of 2008. Where did that start?- the US!

I am on the brink of despair...

I was one supporting coalitions, yes I’m still smarting from Nick Clegg’s back peddling on his University Fees, so I’ve not forgotten.

What I’d support, which won’t happen, is a coalition not made up from two parties, but three or more.

For example I’d never support a Reform/Tory coalition, though it wouldn’t really be a coalition!

orly

I think the whole Labour government is disrespectful to King Charles with all these shenanigans going on before. during and after the King's Speech. As the King was reading out Starmer's 35 point speech you could tell Charles thought it was just another rehash of the PMs wish list. He looked bored to tears and it was reflected in his tone of voice.

The Kings Speech is written unilaterally by the government.

Starmer cannot be held responsible any “shenanigans” as he’s stated calmly, time and time again that he’s simply carrying with business as usual.

As for our King sounding bored reading out “a wish list” for the government, I find that quite insulting to both our King and PM. It’s not a wish list, it’s the normal stuff contained in a King or Queens speech just before the opening of Parliament, and contains all the new acts and bills which will be debated during the next Parliament period.

But Oreo even though you may be right,
who out of that shower would be a good replacement? I haven’t noticed any of the outs volunteering or recommending each other.

DrWatson

For Twaddle (!!), and westendgirl, and their rush to blame the nasty right-wing media for the present ills of the Labour party. [and please note, I HAVE NO political allegiance, over 7 voting decades, there is ample evidence that no one party has a monopoly on stupidity, incompetence, sleaze or putting their interests above ours].

This is a popular theme from anyone on the Left, the hopeless Corbyn used to blame media attacks, despite the entire press, and TV, using his own mistakes for their reports.

It seems to have escaped notice, but the readership of all papers has plummeted over the last 20 years, no paper has anything like the influence it once had. The Metro is the most-read paper now, not much politics in there! And if you want to blame the Mail for Starmer's woes, bear in mind that NO Labour voter would be reading it anyway, people generally buy papers because it fits their preference, which is why the same group owns the Mirror AND the Express & the Star!

If you consider (validly) that TV has greater influence now, the vast majority of complaints about the BBC (still by far the most-viewed channel) are that it panders to the LEFT, not that it favours the right especially? And they ran plenty of stories criticising BoJo, hardly surprising as he supplied so much ammo for everyone?!

ANY Media outlet is entitled to just REPORT on the failings of ANY Govt, any badge, and Lord knows this Labour admin has shot itself in both feet any number of times?! Count up the assorted fiasco topics, Starmer promising to reduce immigrant boats to nothing -- HOW is THAT going? Appointing the crook and p*edo-loving Mandelson, then trying to blame it on a 'vetting report' (as if his double-dodgy past was a surprise?!) - how's THAT going?! Etc etc.

The hopeless Reeves crushing the hospitality industry, and Rayner (potential leader?) showing that she studied at the BoJo school of leadership with her novel take on tax, claiming for properties, etc? There is NO problem with all those issues being reported, and so they should be. It's NOT the Media's fault if we elect a set of lame ducks to be the Govt!

I said back in about the 70s or 80s that we should sub-contract our Govt to somewhere sensible like Holland or Denmark, they could do a better job on about 2 days a week, cheaper and we'd have a much nicer country. I think I was right.

You’ve said it all so I don’t need to 😁

Starmer may have been an ok Foreign Sec.
He isn’t an ok PM, he has lost the confidence of not only the voters and many members but of almost 90 MP’s and several Ministers.He can’t stagger on into the next GE or all will be lost.
If he’s replaced this year then there’s just time to repair things, tho even that isn’t certain now.
They are acting like grown ups by wanting to replace a duff leader.

Flakesdayout

I don't think Starmer should go. It would evoke chaos. I think he did so well standing up to Trump and his support with Greenland was another plus point. There have been some achievements. Admittedly he has made mistakes. The press have been relentless in their attacks. But let us take a look at Farage - how many millions has been taken? He is a racist amongst many things. Polanski is another dubious character. Starmer now needs to become a strong leader and first thing to do is move Miss Reeves on. She has made some terrible fiscal errors. A second chance I think and then if it does not improve then maybe a change, but we need to stop all the nastiness and PMQ's needs to be quietened down. They are supposed to be grown ups fgs.

I agree with every word, a Cabinet reshuffle should shuffle RR right to the back.

Elsi

So why did media attack distrust dislike and disapprove of him from the start then?? If you can't see why never will.

Explain to us then, so we can “see”

DrWatson, Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not "on the left" and I was never a supporter of Corbyn. I happen to be someone who is interested in the way the media influences people and the way politics itself operates. If you can't see how the media has operated over the last couple of years, I'm afraid you haven't been very astute.

I don't think Starmer should go. It would evoke chaos. I think he did so well standing up to Trump and his support with Greenland was another plus point. There have been some achievements. Admittedly he has made mistakes. The press have been relentless in their attacks. But let us take a look at Farage - how many millions has been taken? He is a racist amongst many things. Polanski is another dubious character. Starmer now needs to become a strong leader and first thing to do is move Miss Reeves on. She has made some terrible fiscal errors. A second chance I think and then if it does not improve then maybe a change, but we need to stop all the nastiness and PMQ's needs to be quietened down. They are supposed to be grown ups fgs.

orly

I think the whole Labour government is disrespectful to King Charles with all these shenanigans going on before. during and after the King's Speech. As the King was reading out Starmer's 35 point speech you could tell Charles thought it was just another rehash of the PMs wish list. He looked bored to tears and it was reflected in his tone of voice.

I don’t think the PM writes this list unilaterally [?]. But I do agree having the King take part in this with everything happening within the party is disrespectful to both the King and the electorate. But I hold the party as a whole responsible, not the PM.

I think the whole Labour government is disrespectful to King Charles with all these shenanigans going on before. during and after the King's Speech. As the King was reading out Starmer's 35 point speech you could tell Charles thought it was just another rehash of the PMs wish list. He looked bored to tears and it was reflected in his tone of voice.

Oreo

LizzieDrip

Fallingstar

But as I said if the plotters win I won’t vote Labour again because they are just like the Tories, believing that simply changing hats will work.

Same!

I’m a Labour Party member. If there’s leadership election, I’ll remain as a member so I can have my vote in that election.

Depending who wins, my party membership will be thrown in the bin and I won’t vote Labour again.

I really can’t understand you on this.
It’s the Party that matters not the leader who isn’t delivering what’s needed.
The Party will go on, and be strengthened by a better PM.
You can hardly be very strongly Labour if you’re prepared to abandon them so quickly imo.

What isn’t he delivering (given that he’s up against Trump and several wars)? From what I’ve read ( happy to be corrected) Labour have already honoured 20 manifesto pledges. My MP says people need to realise that these things take time and it takes a while for a new government to get going ( she, as a new MP had to get her constituency office up and running), policies take a while to implement it. My personal opinion is that we have a speaker who, albeit being Labour doesn’t make things easy for his own party. All these shenanigans in parliament means that the implementation of some policies is going to get pushed back. On thinking about it I’d be happy for Burnham to return to government if he would eg be deputy leader in the way that Rayner was, work well with Starmer without trying to usurp him (albeit possibly with an agreement that he would become PM at a later date in the way that Blair and Brown had an agreement). But my gut feeling is that he only wants the top job handed to him and nothing else will do. And that Keir wouldn’t agree to it although he would make an excellent foreign Secretary. It’s time some people in the party acted like grown ups . I do need to start going to meetings although my mobility problems don’t make that easy.

I really agree that we have dropped into the trap of celebrity politics a la Donald Trump.

This really depresses me as it is not the way we have conducted politics before in this country.

We are heading for nothing but conflict and turmoil and it is hard to see how we pull ourselves out of it.

I think it is unfair to blame young people though because the demographics don't back this up.

Also whoever suggested that coalitions are the way forward needs to remember the last one.

Politics in the UK has never recovered from the crash of 2008. Where did that start?- the US!

I am on the brink of despair...

For Twaddle (!!), and westendgirl, and their rush to blame the nasty right-wing media for the present ills of the Labour party. [and please note, I HAVE NO political allegiance, over 7 voting decades, there is ample evidence that no one party has a monopoly on stupidity, incompetence, sleaze or putting their interests above ours].

This is a popular theme from anyone on the Left, the hopeless Corbyn used to blame media attacks, despite the entire press, and TV, using his own mistakes for their reports.

It seems to have escaped notice, but the readership of all papers has plummeted over the last 20 years, no paper has anything like the influence it once had. The Metro is the most-read paper now, not much politics in there! And if you want to blame the Mail for Starmer's woes, bear in mind that NO Labour voter would be reading it anyway, people generally buy papers because it fits their preference, which is why the same group owns the Mirror AND the Express & the Star!

If you consider (validly) that TV has greater influence now, the vast majority of complaints about the BBC (still by far the most-viewed channel) are that it panders to the LEFT, not that it favours the right especially? And they ran plenty of stories criticising BoJo, hardly surprising as he supplied so much ammo for everyone?!

ANY Media outlet is entitled to just REPORT on the failings of ANY Govt, any badge, and Lord knows this Labour admin has shot itself in both feet any number of times?! Count up the assorted fiasco topics, Starmer promising to reduce immigrant boats to nothing -- HOW is THAT going? Appointing the crook and p*edo-loving Mandelson, then trying to blame it on a 'vetting report' (as if his double-dodgy past was a surprise?!) - how's THAT going?! Etc etc.

The hopeless Reeves crushing the hospitality industry, and Rayner (potential leader?) showing that she studied at the BoJo school of leadership with her novel take on tax, claiming for properties, etc? There is NO problem with all those issues being reported, and so they should be. It's NOT the Media's fault if we elect a set of lame ducks to be the Govt!

I said back in about the 70s or 80s that we should sub-contract our Govt to somewhere sensible like Holland or Denmark, they could do a better job on about 2 days a week, cheaper and we'd have a much nicer country. I think I was right.

Political Parties have the right to replace a PM when enough of them lose confidence in him/her.
Margaret Thatcher was swiftly replaced and so was Boris amongst others.
The Labour Party has a more complicated way of doing things but Labour PM’s can be replaced too.
It’s silly to think that about 90 MP’s (and other Ministers who have resigned ) have done it because ‘they don’t like him’.

Fallingstar

I think some voters have confused government with celebs on a reality TV show, thinking they can vote them off if they don’t like them.
Today life is all about ‘likes’ and people faking it in order to be the most popular.
There is no substance, we have become image and personality driven. And there is no sticking with anything in order to see any benefit, instant gratification is required. So in an age dictated by social media it is hardly any wonder that boring old politics doesn’t stand a chance.

I’m afraid I do agree that some people are like this, I’ll probably get shouted down for this, but I think it’s likely to be younger generations,(not all, just a small percentage), because whatever people here think or believe those brought up with reality TV and the internet and those who watch and listen to “influencers” and watch certain tubers are “influenced” themselves by all things “media”.

Sad times!