Is democracy being by-passed in favour of the billionaires?

I did not stay that appointing an unelected person was unprecedented. Sunak brought in Cameron as Foreign Secretary in the dying months of the Tory government.

Starmer made only three appointments. James Timpson as Minister of State for Prisons, Parole, and Probation, Richard Hermer KC as Attorney General and Sir Patrick Vallance as Minister of State for Science in the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology. None are the four great offices of state.

Let me throw the question back at you. The cabinet comprises 22 Ministers. There are currently 149 ministerial positions.

If there was a snap election and Reform won, how do you think Farage would fill those positions when nobody, not even himself, has any ministerial experience? How would Parliament function?

eazybee

If you read the OP, I have suggested that political donations need a complete overhaul.

But in answer to your question, when one individual, who pays no tax in the U.K., has Thai citizenship, and is being investigated for money laundering, fraud and funding terrorism in the USA is entirely responsible for making one political party the most wealthy and therefore able to buy enormous quantities of advertising, there is a high degree of doubt regarding the democratic process in this funding.

The unions who fund Labour or big business who fund the Tories are generally registered and reside in the uk, paying tax snd having a real stake in the country.

I believe many of the people who voted Reform did so tactically to get Labour out and send a message. I did.

Although I approve of some of Reforms policies - dealing with the boats/mass deportations of illegals/ getting rid of the woke agenda and net zero) id dont approve of their misogiynistic policies of encouraging childbirth and penalising women who are unselfish enough to be childfree.

I am a dyed in the wool conservative and very much to the right of the patry. So I feel politically homeless at present.

Donations from the Unions are donations from British citizens, so 'yes'.

The really interesting thing is that if Harbourne had not bankrolled either Farage or Reform, where would we be now.

We can assume that Farage would have retired from the political scene, and Reform would have struggled in the run up to the locals to buy advertising.

The result may have been very different.

I think we can assume that these local elections was purchased by Harbourne.

Donations from the Unions are of course entirely altruistic.

Unless Yusuf were to stand in a GE and be elected, were he to become Home Secretary he would not be allowed to enter the House of Commons so he would not be able to make statements or take and answer questions from other MPs. Where’s the democracy in that?
Richard Hermer is unelected , was 'enobled' to sit in the Lords, appointed immediately as Attorney General without any previous parliamentary experience and is unable to make statements or face questions from the Commons.
Is that democratic?

The Labour Party still has a majority. Perhaps priority should be given to a Bill that would effectively stem the bribes from abroad.

I wonder if those who voted Reform realised they were voting for a billionaire business man in Thai who certainly doesn't have the welfare of British citizens at heart.

OMG Graphite you’ve just described my worst nightmare in clear, stark reality😱

The good people of the UK must not let this happen to our glorious country.

Were Reform ever to win a General Election, democracy would certainly be bypassed in favour of the millionaires and billionaires because Farage has made no secret that he would bring in many unelected people to govern.

We all know that Farage’s political beard, the unelected multi-millionaire Yusuf, who bought his way into the party and is now “shadow” home secretary, is trotted out at every opportunity to speak for the party and to defend Farage.

Unless Yusuf were to stand in a GE and be elected, were he to become Home Secretary he would not be allowed to enter the House of Commons so he would not be able to make statements or take and answer questions from other MPs. Where’s the democracy in that?

With the party’s inability to attract candidates of any calibre and no experienced people to call on (Braverman, Jenrick (and Kruger) are all predicted to lose their seats in a GE), Farage would fill his Cabinet and other ministerial positions (149 of them) with his wealthy friends. Parliament would become an oligarchy overnight.

That really worries me too WW.

I just wonder if enough people in this country care about it though!

What is worrying me is that it appears that the political party is the face, but the bank roller is the real power and influencer - that has zero to do with democracy.

twaddle

I think you're right about people liking Farage because he's a grifter. Some people always seem to admire the "bad guy" who rebels against the "establishment". I guess it gives them an excuse to behave in the same way.

I agree twaddle and yet, he’s scamming his own supporters with this faux ‘jack the lad’ persona.

He pretends to be anti-establishment yet he’s actually establishment through and through.

Total scammer!

I doubt very much if it would be possible to get any genuine majority to agree on a single leader (at the moment in the UK), so Starmer might as well stay.

There are more people against Farage than for him.

I would dispute that Starmer belongs to "the left".

No, its being passed by, by the left who think they know better than us how we want to live and their power hungry leaders, like Starmer, who will not go even though they have been proved incompetent and the majority want them to go. Surprising what Starmer has in common with Trump!

Of course billionaires ahave power and use it, but do not underestimate the power of those who believe that they know what is best for us.

And remember both extremes, Left and Right are united in their anti-semitism.

I think you're right about people liking Farage because he's a grifter. Some people always seem to admire the "bad guy" who rebels against the "establishment". I guess it gives them an excuse to behave in the same way.

Tice’s answer to most things is to claim it’s a smear campaign. He says the same about his own dodgy tax affairs.

The fact is there was in induction process for new MPs which Farage should have taken part in. Had he done so he would have known that the £5 million needed to be declared. If in doubt he could have asked Daniel Greenberg who is to not only the Commissioner but also a lawyer.

The words in the invitation letter from Greenberg are clear:

www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/pcfs/advice-notes/parliamentary-commissioner-for-standards---members-induction-pack-2024.pdf

The main purpose of the Register is to provide information about any financial interest which a Member has, or any benefit which he or she receives, which others might reasonably consider to influence his or her actions or words as a Member of Parliament.

Someone has already donated £10 to your previous political party (the Brexit Party) and they now give you another £5 million which prompts you to stand for Parliament when you said you weren’t going to. What other construction could be put on it particularly when it is known that a former Prime Minister gave that same donor access for cash?

My fear is that it’s now too late.

Reform’s set-up as a company hasn’t been investigated or challenged … and now it’s embedded.

People know what and who Farage is, yet they still vote for him. I believe many like the fact that he’s a grifter.

I feel despondent about my country … not for me but for my grandchildren.

On the night Orban lost the election in Hungary, young people were crying tears of joy and shouting “Thank God, I’ve got my future back”. I don’t want that to be my grandchildren in 16 years time😢

I hope our MSM takes up the challenge of asking valid questions about Reform finances.

Harborne wants the UK to become a major crypto hub with the help of Farage and Reform. He has already donated 22 million to the Brexit leave campaign and now to Farage.
The Reform voters are helping him achieve this unknowingly I would think.

This thread makes me want to weep and rage with feeling helpless, it is at least good to know that others are aware of the state of our media, please someone have a look at the link I shared above, it appears to be a useful attempt to do something......

mediasovereignty.org/why/

LizzieDrip

Here’s a post I’ve just put on the ‘Andy Burnham’ thread, in response to a comment saying that all politicians should be treated the same (paraphrasing).

I’m re-posting my comment here because it’s relevant to this topic.

“When Keir Starmer was given a few pairs of glasses by a Labour Party donor - gifts which were declared - it was media headline news for days and days. It was apparently apocalyptic!

Fast forward to Nigel Farage’s secret, undeclared gift of £5 million from a Thailand based crypto guy … hardly a mention🤔 Even though Farage promotes cryptocurrency; says he’ll deregulate it ‘when’ he’s PM; and even promoted his donor’s crypto company Tether, in radio interviews.

Farage refused point blank to answer any questions about it in an interview with Beth Rigby the other day - she just accepted that and moved on to his agenda.

When Rigby asked Keir Starmer about glasses etc she was like a rabid dog with a bone. She would not let it drop, to the point of embarrassing herself.

Level playing field? I don’t think so!”

This dirty money is overriding our democracy, and the media (main stream and social) is complicit.

👏 👏

Richard Tice has just spoken with Laura Keunsburg who challenged him about both offensive on line comments of some of newly elected councillors and the £5 million sum Farage received from Harborne, a Reform UK multi million 3 donor. He refused to answer direct questions, like do you consider it offensive to post- Nigerians should be melted down to fill potholes- etc.

Instead Tice took the position that the problem is actually a smear campaign, ie the voters can see that the media constantly seeks to SMEAR Reform and Farage. His position was repeated several times along the lines of: - "you and the media carry on smearing Nigel and Reform UK but it's not working. The voters know all that and still voted for Reform and want Nigel as their PM".

Harborne donated £10 million to the Brexit Party and has donated £12 million to Reform.

So the man who donated £22 million to what is essentially the same company, despite it's convoluted filing history, has also bunged the director another £5 million which he failed to declare in the Members' Register.

I am just hoping that Parlimentary Commissioner for Standards Daniel Greenberg shows some teeth this time and suspends Farage long enough to trigger a recall and a by-election.

Meantime, where is the money? Farage claims it's to pay for his security "for the rest of his life" in which case it must be in a ring-fenced account which HMRC will be keen to look at not least to see if any of it was used to buy the house in Essex in his girlfriend's name.

The wider and imore mportant issue is of course cash for access and favours which we know Harborne had from Johnson.

We only need to look at Orban’s Hungary to see how, when a grifter gains power, democracy will be sold to the highest bidder.

Fortunately for the people of Hungary, democracy eventually regained its power … but it took 16 long years, during which time the lives of many people were decimated (not the rich of course).

Is that what we’re heading towards here😢